clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 33

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 7:17am

This Biden talk is creeping me out also.

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 8:49am

What Hillary Clinton wants you to forget: Her disastrous record as a war hawk

"Hillary Clinton  announced her support for Obama’s Iran deal in a speech on Wednesday. It wasn’t exactly an act of huge political bravery. The deal is happening. It’s secured enough support from Democrats in the Senate to doom any attempts to block it. If Clinton had done anything other than endorsed the deal, she would have created a major headache for herself.

Even so, her speech about the deal highlighted what ought to be–but probably won’t be–a deeply examined part of her ideology: her hyper-hawkishness.

In the speech, Clinton spent most of her time “talking tough,” as they say. She flatly declared that the deal did not signal “some larger diplomatic opening” and insisted that she would “not hesitate to take military action if Iran tries to obtain a nuclear weapon.” (If the president of Iran casually threatened to bomb the United States, there would be hell to pay, but no matter.) She also pledged to to arm the already-well-stocked Israel even further, and to expand the American military presence around Iran. Never mind that multiple American intelligence estimates haveconcluded that Iran suspended its quest for a nuclear weapon long ago; we can always use more ships in the Middle East."

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/what_hillary_clinton_wants_you_to_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 11:28am

 

ErikJ972 said: "Never mind that multiple American intelligence estimates have concluded that Iran suspended its quest for a nuclear weapon long ago"

 

Suspended?!? That's just not true. Silly even.

 

Even the Obama administration acknowledges that the nuclear facility buried in the mountains at Fordow, outside of the holy city of Qom, was built to create weapons.

 

Everyone knows that if you want to produce energy, it doesn't matter where you build a nuclear plant. If you want to build weapons,you hide the plant. Fordow was chosen so 

 

The whole reason for the agreement is to limit weapons production.

 

Here's the 411 on Fordow:

 

 NTI.org: Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant

 

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 11:35am

 "ErikJ972 said: "Never mind that multiple American intelligence estimates have concluded that Iran suspended its quest for a nuclear weapon long ago"

I didn't say that. The article did.

She's still a war hawk. Foreign policy is one of the main reasons I'll never vote for her. Iraq War, Libya (a disaster!), she LOVES a pointless war! War makes her corporate masters rich!

Updated On: 9/10/15 at 11:35 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 12:53pm

 

War makes her corporate masters rich!

Actually, I don't think Hillary Clinton calls any man her "master."

 

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 1:45pm

Except for the board of CitiGroup.

 

Updated On: 9/10/15 at 01:45 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 2:14pm

^ Brilliant.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 3:26pm

She's a hot mess.

My vote goes to Biden.

 

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 6:46pm

The Bernie campaign says they're ahead in Iowa, the momentum in this campaign seems unstoppable.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 8:07pm

This thread has been going on for 4 1/2 months and I'm beginning to get the feeling that the Pro Hillary folks here are never going to convince the Anti-Hillary folks here that she's the best choice and is not actually Satan's spawn, and vice versa. I could be wrong though. But you all should keep trying, it's a damn entertaining read.

 

One thing I've seen over the years is that how things appear 14 months before the general election has almost no relation to what will end up happening in November, 2016. Does anyone here really believe Trump or Ben Carson is going to actually be the Republican nominee?  With that said, while Bernie Sanders is entertaining and the enthusiasm for him is admirable, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell he will survive the debates and the intense scrutiny of his entire life that will come next spring if he is still a candidate. He will end up being viewed as a perfect choice to represent Vermont, but woefully unsuited to be the leader of the free world.

 

Well, I'm going back to sleep. Someone wake me in February... or not.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 8:10pm

There's one camp, another camp, and the out liar.

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 8:51pm

We'll see Bob, you're such a dickhead.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 9:17pm

Why South Florida, because I stated I don't think Bernie will withstand close scrutiny of his record or his life? Because I don't see him as being suitable to run the country? That makes me a dickhead? I even said the support of him was admirable cause I really feel his supporters truly believe in him.

 

Well, I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. If you want to take this discussion to a 10 year old's level, baby I'm ready.

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 9:53pm

I don't know what horrible things Bernie has done.  Right now I'm sensing an exciting political season and its already started.  In my lifetime we've never had a candidate who says the things I would say, and now we have him, I want to enjoy the moment and root hard, and do whatever I can to contribute.  The issues he addresses are important to me.   I go from palaces with only staff living there to not 5 minutes away, panhandlers at every traffic light.  I watch as the country grows dumber and dumber and the youth get screwed over because they can't afford college, and I've watched every decent paying labor job go overseas so the big shots could make more.  I've watched foreign policy dictated by business interests. Every single thing Sanders talks about, and has been talking about for a long time resonates with me. The people, the vast majority of people who would benefit from a Bernie Sanders, will not be informed enough to get off their asses and register to vote.  Do we really want to hand over the government to Wall Street again, it dosen't seem to be good for what ails us.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 10:22pm

I'm not implying he has done horrible things but I think it is very easy to demonize big business and banks and taking certain actions to maintain our interests overseas. It's very easy to vote against everything so you don't ever run the risk of supporting something that may not work out as planned. I think his ideologies sound good on paper but are not for the most part realistic in a world getting more complicated by the day where international interdependencies make doing anything complicated but doing nothing far too risky. Are labor jobs decreasing because they are being exported as people like Bernie would have you believe or because technology is changing the way most things are manufactured decreasing the need for manual labor and the job growth is in the service sector and technology, not heavy manufacturing. The unemployment level is 5.1%, lowest level in 7.5 years. How is that possible if all these workers are jobless.

 

I could speak to the other points you raised but suffice to say as every American President has found out, it's a helluva lot easier identifying the problems than it is crafting workable solutions to fix them. If he speaks to you, by all means vote for him. I don't find him to be a viable candidate. If that makes me a dickhead, as the great philosopher Roxy says, somehow I will survive.

 

I

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 11:08pm

No, they only reason you were a dickhead tonight is because you tried to dampen my enthusiasm.  There are lot of things that are absurd about the wealthiest nation, and only one candidate seems to have a heart for the poor, always has, and that is the first step, compassion.  Globalization, while inevitable, has left too large a gap between the haves and have nots.  It's very plain to see.   

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/10/15 at 11:13pm

South Florida said: "The Bernie campaign says they're ahead in Iowa, the momentum in this campaign seems unstoppable"

 

"Unstoppable" only to people with no understanding of politics.

 

There are four primaries in February before "Super Tuesday" on March 1st, when there are thirteen primaries.

 

Of the four February primaries, Bernie has the fan base to take only two because his fan base is shockingly and overwhelmingly WHITE and MALE with very little minority or women voters. He will take the Iowa caucus on 2/1 and New Hampshire primary on 2/9. 

 

Hillary's campaign will be pronounced DOA (yet again), but that will be the end of #feelthebern.

 

The next primary is in South Carolina (on 2/20), followed by the Nevada caucus on 2/23. Hillary is ahead in both those states by over 30 points: In Nevada, she is ahead 55% to 18% for Bernie, and in South Carolina, she is ahead 54% to 24% (for Biden!) to 9% for Bernie.

 

And then comes Super Tuesday, March 1st: Thirteen primaries and caucuses, all on the same day. In the ones for which there is polling data, Hillary is ahead by landslide levels: Alabama (78%-10%), Alaska (Hillary), Arkansas (Hillary was first lady!), Colorado (Bernie could take), Georgia (Hillary 51%-24%), Massachusetts (Bernie could take), Minnesota (Hillary), North Carolina (Hillary), Oklahoma (Hillary), Tennessee (Hillary), Texas (Hillary), Vermont (Bernie could take), and Virginia (Hillary).

 

After Super Tuesday, the media will react with a slew of (predictable) "What Happened?!?" articles and pundits declaring Hillary a "Comeback Kid" like her husband was in 1992.

 

But the truth of the matter is, everyone knows it now.

 

 

Updated On: 9/10/15 at 11:13 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 12:05am

You don't get it man, you gotta shake them hips for Bernie. 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 8:29am

Here's one of my favorite clips of Bernie Sanders being "crazy". Advocating for gay military members on the floor of the house in 1995. When Clinton was supporting Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA.

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 8:44am

Phyllis Rogers Stone said: "You don't get it man, you gotta shake them hips for Bernie."

 

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 9:24am

The unemployment level is 5.1%, lowest level in 7.5 years. How is that possible if all these workers are jobless.

 

The unemployment level that the BLS publishes, which is based on a basic U-3 rate, is not accurate. The real unemployment level (U-6 rate; using unemployed, underemployed and discouraged) is at around 10.3%. It has definitely gone down -- as can be proven with this chart from August on CNBC.com -- but it is not as low as the BLS would like you to believe. The U-6 rate is a more accurate and authentic way of tracking unemployment which, by the way, the BLS also tracks and provides but chooses not to publicize or use as its primary 'barometer.' 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 9:30am

But since THEY ARE ALL EXACTLY THE SAME the unemployment rate would be exactly the same if Romney had won.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 9:50am

But since THEY ARE ALL EXACTLY THE SAME the unemployment rate would be exactly the same if Romney had won.

 

I am forgoing a "Like" graphic here because I agree with you completely. 100%. You'll get no argument or disagreement from me. Romney was in the pocket of just as many bankers, lobbyists and cronies as Clinton is and Bush was (and is) and Obama is. Until we can get someone who is truly independent and cannot be corrupted under the rule of greed and money, the country will not change. No matter who it is or what party they're part of. 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 9:54am

Did anyone watch Biden on Colbert last night? It was a great interview. But made me think he isn't going to run.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 9/11/15 at 11:18am

Liza, I am aware of the additional numbers of underemployed and discouraged, however I believe the importance of factoring them in especially for discouraged starts to decrease when unemployment levels are at 7 year lows. When unemployment levels are very high, I can see many workers being discouraged and giving up their job search but when levels are half of what they were and there are definitely jobs out there, at what point do we stop counting someone who chooses not to even bother looking for a job as discouraged and start treating them as someone who just doesn't want to work anymore and factor them out of the data?