clinton vs. sanders your vote? — Page 68

Are people really denying that Sanders is more pro-gay than Clinton? Goodness. Denial is a heavy drug.

This thread has so many Lizii babbling the usual Lizii fair.

Coin-Toss Fact Check: No, Coin Flips Did Not Win Iowa For Hillary Clinton

Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow, (also not white and not a misogynist) had this to say about Hillary Clinton on her Facebook page.

"If anyone doubts that the mainstream media fails to tell the truth about our political system (and its true winners and losers), the spectacle of large majorities of black folks supporting Hillary Clinton in the primary races ought to be proof enough. I can't believe Hillary would be coasting into the primaries with her current margin of black support if most people knew how much damage the Clintons have done—the millions of families that were destroyed the last time they were in the White House thanks to their boastful embrace of the mass incarceration machine and their total capitulation to the right-wing narrative on race, crime, welfare and taxes. There's so much more to say on this topic and it's a shame that more people aren't saying it. I think it's time we have that conversation."

In the book, which I highly recommend, Alexander addresses the Clinton legacy of mass incarceration.

"In 1992, presidential candidate Bill Clinton vowed that he would never permit any Republican to be perceived as tougher on crime than he. True to his word, just weeks before the critical New Hampshire primary, Clinton chose to fly home to Arkansas to oversee the execution of Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally impaired black man who had so little conception of what was about to happen to him that he asked for the dessert from his last meal to be saved for him until the morning. After the execution, Clinton remarked, “I can be nicked a lot, but no one can say I’m soft on crime.”

Once elected, Clinton endorsed the idea of a federal “three strikes and you’re out” law, which he advocated in his 1994 State of the Union address to enthusiastic applause on both sides of the aisle. The $30 billion crime bill sent to President Clinton in August 1994 was hailed as a victory for the Democrats, who “were able to wrest the crime issue from the Republicans and make it their own. “The bill created dozens of new federal capital crimes, mandated life sentences for some three-time offenders, and authorized more than $16 billion for state prison grants and expansion of state and local police forces. Far from resisting the emergence of the new caste system, Clinton escalated the drug war beyond what conservatives had imagined possible a decade earlier. As the Justice Policy Institute has observed, “the Clinton Administration’s ‘tough on crime’ policies resulted in the largest increases in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history.”

Clinton eventually moved beyond crime and capitulated to the conservative racial agenda on welfare. This move, like his “get tough” rhetoric and policies, was part of a grand strategy articulated by the “new Democrats” to appeal to the elusive white swing voters. In so doing, Clinton—more than any other president—created the current racial undercaste. He signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, which “ended welfare as we know it,” and replaced it with a block grant to states called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). TANF imposed a five-year lifetime limit on welfare assistance, as well as a permanent, lifetime ban on eligibility for welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—including simple possession of marijuana.

Clinton did not stop there. Determined to prove how “tough” he could be on “them,” Clinton also made it easier for federally-assisted public housing projects to exclude anyone with a criminal history—an extraordinarily harsh step in the midst of a drug war aimed at racial and ethnic minorities. In his announcement of the “One Strike and You’re Out” Initiative, Clinton explained: “From now on, the rule for residents who commit crime and peddle drugs should be one strike and you’re out.” The new rule promised to be “the toughest admission and eviction policy that HUD has implemented.” Thus, for countless poor people, particularly racial minorities targeted by the drug war, public housing was no longer available, leaving many of them homeless—locked out not only of mainstream society, but their own homes.

The law and order perspective, first introduced during the peak of the Civil Rights Movement by rabid segregationists, had become nearly hegemonic two decades later."

I know the narrative has been written that Bernie Sanders can not appeal to African American voters. I don't think that's true. I think many African Americans haven't been properly introduced to Sanders yet. Clinton definitely has the name recognition. So I think it's still too early to tell what will happen as the primary goes on. A few months ago, when Sanders was 40 points down in Iowa, no one thought he had a chance there either.

"New Jim Crow" Author Michelle Alexander on Hillary Clinton's Embrace of Mass Incarceration

http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2016/01/29/23497407/new-jim-crow-author-michelle-alexander-on-hillary-clintons-embrace-of-mass-incarceration

Updated On: 2/3/16 at 08:37 AM

This all-caps "explosion of feelings regarding the liberal backlash to Hillary Clinton" has been making the rounds of the Internets. It is by blogger Courtney Enlow, whose previous posts have included "15 Reasons Lin-Manuel Miranda Is Literal Human Sunshine":

I hate all-caps diatribes, but this one is a must-read, whether you are for Hillary or for Bernie.

=====================================

As Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have become head-to-head rivals, their denizens have begun attacking each other, the Democratic Party eating itself like a snake that loves science and Planned Parenthood. And things have gotten ugly.

For many of us, it's not simply politics as usual. It's very personal.

For me, the backlash against Hillary Clinton feels very, very personal.

Can you imagine how absolutely infuriating it must be for Hillary to have to work so hard to be likable, but strong? Hip, but above the need to be seen as cool? For everything she says to be perfect because she'd be crucified otherwise, meanwhile Bernie Sanders could say pretty much anything he wants and it would be seen as the goddamn revolution? I'm so infuriated on her behalf. Because what you like about Bernie, what they like about Trump, she doesn't get to do that. She doesn't get to be all wild hair and yelling. Do I wish different? Of course. And the first female president would go a long way toward making that difference possible.

So since Hillary cannot yell, since by the virtue of being sane and not a white man she is forced to be the biggest adult in the room, just like Obama has had to for eight goddamn years, I will yell for her.

FIRST AND F*CKING FOREMOST, COOL, YOU LIKE BERNIE'S WISHES AND DREAMS APPROACH TO POLITICS. "FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE AND A GODDAMN PONY." YES, THAT SOUNDS F*CKING WONDERFUL BUT DO YOU THINK HILLARY COULD EVEN SAY THOSE WORDS WITHOUT FOX NEWS LITERALLY BURYING HER ALIVE IN TAMPONS AND CRUCIFIXES?

YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE HAD CERTAIN NOW-UNACCEPTABLE POLICIES BACK IN THE '90S? HEY, I GET THAT THAT SH*T SEEMS LIKE LAST WEEK, BUT IT WAS ANOTHER GODDAMN WORLD ENTIRELY. I GET THAT WE ALL THINK WE'RE THE UNIVERSE'S BESTEST HUMANS BUT MOST OF THIS COUNTRY JUST LEARNED TRANS PEOPLE EXIST, LIKE, YESTERDAY. LET'S NOT PRETEND WE'VE ALL BEEN THE MOST INCLUSIVE PROGRESSIVE SUPER-COOL PEEPS FOR LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS NOW. PROGRESSIVE MEANS JUST THAT--PROGRESS. SH*T THAT WAS A BIG GODDAMN DEAL AT THE TIME IS NOT COOL NOW. PROGRESS. IT'S F*CKING SWELL.

YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE PLAYS THE GAME? THAT SHE HAS TIES TO THE ESTABLISHMENT? FOR ONE THING, THAT'S HOW SH*T F*CKING GETS DONE. FOR THE OTHER THING, THE BIGGEST THING, A WOMAN DOESN'T GET THE F*CKING OPTION *NOT* TO PLAY THE GAME. NOT NOW. NOT YET. WE ALL WISH THINGS WERE DIFFERENT BUT THEY DON'T BECOME DIFFERENT WHILE WE'RE ATTACKING THE F*CKING PERSON WHO CAN MAKE THAT POSSIBLE.

AND THESE NEW BERNIE VS. HILLARY MEMES. WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU EVEN DOING?

SERIOUSLY? THAT'S YOUR LINE? SHE'S NOT COOL ENOUGH? WHAT THE F*CK DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN WANT FROM HER? WOMEN HAVE TRIED FOR YEARS TO "HAVE IT ALL" AND THEN WE GET YELLED AT FOR TRYING TO HAVE THE IMPOSSIBLE "ALL" BUT THEN IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH WHEN WE DON'T HAVE THE "ALL." IT'S F*CKING BULLSH*T.

THE DAY MY HUSBAND TOLD ME HE LIKED BERNIE, HE SAID, "I mean, how great is it to have a president who just doesn't even care how his hair looks" AND I EXPLODED "DO YOU THINK THERE EXISTS A WORLD WHERE A WOMAN COULD EVEN CONSIDER THAT?"

AND THE MOST MINDBLOWING PART? THIS ISN'T EVEN COMING FROM THE GOP! BECAUSE WHAT I AM SEEING IS THE SAME THING WE SEE WITH OBAMA ONLY ON THE MORE LIBERAL END OF THE SPECTRUM--PEOPLE WHO WOULD NEVER CONSIDER THEMSELVES BIGOTS IN ANYWAY BUT JUST KNOW THERE IS *SOMETHING* THEY DON'T CARE FOR ABOUT THIS PERSON. THEY REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING COULD BE SKIN COLOR OR GENDER BUT FOR VERY MANY OF THEM IT ABSOLUTELY F*CKING IS.

I'M NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T REASONS SOMEONE SHOULD DISLIKE HILLARY OR PREFER BERNIE. THAT IS FINE. THAT IS YOUR JOURNEY. BUT LET'S NOT PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT THERE WOULD BE *THIS MANY* ISSUES WITH HILLARY IF SHE WAS A GODDAMN MAN.

AND IF YOU COME AT ME FOR EVEN ONE GODDAMN SECOND WITH A "YOU JUST LIKE HER BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN" I WILL DESTROY YOU WHERE YOU STAND. I LIKE HER! I LIKE HER POLICIES, I LIKE HER PLANS, I LIKE WHAT SHE STANDS FOR, I LIKE THAT SHE'S GROWN AND EVOLVED AS A HUMAN AND POLITICIAN! I LIKE THAT SHE WAS FOR MANY OF US MY AGE ONE OF OUR FIRST ROLE MODELS OF A SMART, PROFESSIONAL, KICKASS WOMAN AND THAT SHE ISN'T AFRAID OF THE WORD "FEMINIST" AND I'M SICK OF HAVING TO APOLOGIZE FOR LIKING HER, FOR HAVING TO QUALIFY AND SEE YOUR SIDE AND RESPECT YOUR OPINION WHEN I F*CKING DON'T AND YOU F*CKING DON'T RIGHT BACK. I LIKE HER!

AND MOST OF YOU LIKE HER POLICIES AND PLANS TOO BECAUSE A) THEY'RE BASICALLY F*CKING OBAMA AND B) THEY'RE NOT THAT F*CKING DIFFERENT THAN F*CKING BERNIE.

THIS IS BASICALLY TWITTER RIGHT NOW:

Hillary: College should be affordable.
Twitter: Establishment puppet, no better than GOP.
Bernie: College should be affordable.
Twitter: DAD

AND THE THING IS--I LIKE BERNIE! EVERYONE LIKES BERNIE! BECAUSE CRAZY GRANDPA IS TOTALLY ELECTABLE BUT CRAZY GRANDMA NEVER COULD BE. BUT WHY DO WE HAVE TO HATE HER TO SHOW HOW MUCH WE LOVE HIM? SOCIALIST JESUS TAKE THE F*CKING WHEEL.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY GUT WRENCHING THAT THIS BADASS, IMPORTANT WOMAN HAS BEEN DIMINSHED AND WRITTEN OFF AND HATED HER WHOLE CAREER, HER WHOLE EXISTENCE AS A PUBLIC FIGURE. YOU LIKE BERNIE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME, BUT FOR HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FOR A WOMAN, SHE HAS HAD NO OTHER CHOICE.

BUT THOSE WHO COME AFTER HER MIGHT.

SO, YES, I'M EMOTIONAL AND I'M YELLING. BECAUSE THIS IS F*CKING EMOTIONAL FOR ME. I WANT A FEMALE PRESIDENT AND I WANT PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON. I WANT BOTH OF THESE THINGS BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE I WANT WOMEN TO HAVE AN EQUAL F*CKING FAIR SHAKE. I'M SICK OF THIS STUPID BULLSH*T DISGUISED AS POLITICS, MASQUERADING AS POLITICAL OPINION.

SO F*CK EVERYTHING. I'M WITH HER.

Updated On: 2/4/16 at 02:07 PM

Oh please

There is crap like that coming from both sides.

It's funny because I specifically have not attacked the motives of Clinton supporters in this thread. I never talk about Hillary's appearance or phony scandals. I stick to her record.

But Clinton supporters in this very thread do not do the same. There have been plenty of attacks on Sanders appearance, age, etc. And plenty of attacks about the motives of Sanders supporters who have been called stupid, naive, clueless etc.

The writer of the poorly written blog PJ posted does it too.

"FIRST AND F*CKING FOREMOST, COOL, YOU LIKE BERNIE'S WISHES AND DREAMS APPROACH TO POLITICS. "FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE AND A GODDAMN PONY."

Just stupid. And if free college is such a pipe dream how do other countries, that are not the richest, most powerful country IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, able to do it?

So Hillary supporters are either extremely sensitive, or they realize when talking about her record they don't have anything to fall back on except attacks on Sanders supporters.

The “Bernie Bros” Narrative: a Cheap Campaign Tactic Masquerading as Journalism and Social Activism

"Have pro-Clinton journalists and pundits been subjected to some vile, abusive, and misogynistic rhetoric from random, anonymous internet supporters of Sanders who are angry over their Clinton support? Of course they have. Does that reflect in any way on the Sanders campaign or which candidate should win the Democratic primary? Of course it does not. The reason pro-Clinton journalists are targeted with vile abuse online has nothing specifically to do with the Sanders campaign or its supporters. It has everything to do with internet. There are literally no polarizing views one can advocate online – including criticizing Democratic Party leaders such as Clinton or Barack Obama – that will not subject one to a torrent of intense anger and vile abuse. It’s not remotely unique to supporting Hillary Clinton: ask Megyn Kelley about that, or theSanders-supporting Susan Sarandon and Cornel West, or anyone with a Twitter account or blog. I’ve seen online TV and film critics get hauled before vicious internet mobs for expressing unpopular views about a TV program or a movie"

^ What HT said. And the caps do read panicky.

I would like to someone to ask Sanders how he plans to deal with an opposition party that will work to block him at every turn, the same way they blocked Obama.

Phyllis Rogers Stone said: "I would like to someone to ask Sanders how he plans to deal with an opposition party that will work to block him at every turn, the same way they blocked Obama.

" Good Question for Ms. Rodham-Clinton as well. Would like to hear both answer.

Updated On: 2/4/16 at 02:42 PM

Thank you. I didn't really hear much of an answer there, though, except that he can bring people together.

I guess the follow-up question I want to see him asked is if - like Obama - your ability to bring people together is thwarted by a congress who will not work with you, how do you plan to make things like free education and single-payer healthcare a reality? Republicans spent eight years turning against the very things they were for because Obama was also for them, so how will you manage to overcome that?

And it's a fair question. I think it would be a fair question for Hillary Clinton too.

I get the appeal of thinking Hillary Clinton is better positioned to make deals with the GOP. That's the direction Bill Clinton led the Democratic Party in the 90's. And it led to the destruction of welfare, the deregulation of Wall Street, NAFTA and the acceleration of the war on drugs that has locked millions of (mostly black) Americans in jail stripped of their civil rights.

That's been the direction of the Democratic party for the past 20 years. It's been a disaster. It's led to record levels of income inequality, record numbers of children in poverty, the dismantling of public education for profit, a "economic recovery" that never reached the majority of Americans (but Wall Street made out great!) millions of people walking around with crushing student loan debt and no job security, and not one Wall Street executive responsible for the financial meltdown even brought to trial.

Clinton is the perfect candidate for THAT Democratic party.

I know the Republican party is worse. And if I lived in a swing state and Clinton was the nominee I would vote for her. But my point is our political system is broken. It's not working for the vast majority of Americans.

I know that Bernie Sanders will probably NOT be the Democratic nominee. But I'm glad he's on TV screaming about these issues every day.