why are Little & Big Edie gay icons?- Page 2

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:27pm

Papa, if you look closely, my icon is Little Edie in a very ratty fur coat chasing after some of the peepers in the privet hedge.
Updated On: 4/20/09 at 03:27 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:29pm

eh, i wouldn't know, joe. never saw any of it. documentary, musical or movie.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:37pm

this fashion show says it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLt9zh7sLIQ

[Roscoe]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:46pm

By what standard can living in filth without heat, running water, and surrounded by fleas, cats, raccoons and ceiling-high piles of catfood cans be seen as triumphing over society?

I ask only for clarification.

Updated On: 4/20/09 at 03:46 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:47pm

I just think if you could somehow take a poll of self-identifying gays nationwide and asked them how many considered the Beales--or Marilyn Monroe or Judy Garland or Cher or Madonna, for that matter--"icons," the result would be less than 50%, probably less than 20%, possibly less than 10%.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:13pm

Ok. Gay people have never heard of anybody.
Updated On: 4/20/09 at 04:13 PM

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:14pm

Roscoe, I said "In their own way...." I certainly didn't mean, "It's how I would choose to live!" or "It's how we ALL should choose to live!"

Anyone who lives "outside" of the boundaries and standards constructed by "the norm" is "triumphing over society." The Beale women sustained a bizarre, non-conformist existence for many years. So, on some level, they are "heroic."

On a more practical level, it was a disgusting, pathetic and unhealthy existence, no doubt about it! (I found the scenes when people walked into the house and had to cover their noses and mouths most evocative.) Every time I watch the documentary, I go around my house cleaning and decluttering. It's an involuntary response!

But the Beales thumbed their noses at everyone who wanted them to live differently. That's all I meant.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:26pm

Sorry, miss p-wise, but I just don't get it. Can you explain a little more about how living surrounded by cats, raccoons while the house you own collapses around you constitutes a triumph? Is living "outside" the boundaries etc. a triumph simply be definition? If so, there are lots of homeless people leading lives of similar triumph all over NYC.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:35pm

If you CHOOSE to live a certain way and you LIKE it, then who are we to judge? (And I'm not talking about being a child molester or a serial killer and so forth, so please, let's not go there.)

[Roscoe]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:41pm

Nobody brought up child molesters or serial killers. You said the choice the Beales made constituted a "triumph" over society, which carries positive connotations that I'm finding curious, considering the conditions under which the Beales found themselves living.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:49pm

Roscoe, I'm not convinced it's a choice to live like that. When it comes to mental illness, there are certain things that go along with it-one of them often is living in squalor.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 4:57pm

"I'm not convinced it's a choice to live like that."

I agree. When someone gets to this stage they cannot see matters the way the rest of us may see them.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:05pm

I know a couple who lives similarly to the Beales. I walked into their house once--and only once--and was so overwhelmed by the "smell of cats," I thought I would vomit. It's their lives to do what they want with them, and they don't seem to care whether it's "appropriate" or not. I adore this couple, too...but I will NEVER step foot inside their home again! (He is an attorney and she is an accountant.)

Roscoe, I brought up child molesters and serial killers in anticipation of ANYONE saying, "Is it okay to be a child molester or serial killer because they CHOOSE to?" It invariably happens on this board, and I was trying to cut it off at the pass. But I didn't mean to imply that you had brought them up or were going to.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:13pm

Scripps, I agree. I think there's a big difference between people in their right minds and live in squalor and those who have extreme mental illness.

Matter of fact, I'm not so sure that those who live that way in their right minds are totally aware either.

But we're talking about the Beales here, and I maintain they had mental issues which kept them living like that.

Updated On: 4/20/09 at 05:13 PM

[Q]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:29pm

"But we're talking about the Beales here, and I maintain they had mental issues which kept them living like that."

I agree - and rather than confront the issue, their family turned their back and left them to live unhealthy and unsafe existences.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:30pm

I think people who live in conditions we find unsanitary and so forth become accustomed to it. I mean, how could someone not smell cat litter, feces and pee if they were breathing it all the time? They must build up an immunity to it. I'm not talking "mental illness" here; I'm referring to their physical sense of smell, taste and so forth. It's positively pulverizing!

[Q]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:34pm

I guess ultimately this boils down to whether or not you view them as challenged mentally. For me, there wasn't a question about it - I thought they were. Which means that the concept of 'choice' gets filtered through that opinion.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:36pm

This is a complete aside, but thinking about living in certain squalor reminded me of a situation I saw around 25 years ago when I first started hanging out in NYC.

A bunch of Rocky Horror people hung out at this one aprartment which had several tenants living in it. There was a cat there, also. Well, it seemed like no one wanted to change the cat's food dish and wash it out. There were so many plates on the floor that you couldn't get around the kitchen. And no one wanted to wash the sink, so out from the drain were several mushrooms which grew as high as the faucet. GROSS!

Ok, sorry for the OT, carry on!

Updated On: 4/20/09 at 05:36 PM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:42pm

If the people I work with keep their work areas and kitchens/refrigerators at home like they do those in our office, there are many Edie's amongst us.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:42pm

Da da da DA dum!

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:45pm

My own apartment's pretty messy, always. Play twilight zone music!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:45pm

Do do do do do do do do

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:48pm

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 5:52pm

"Mentally challenged"? Who ISN'T?

[StockardFan]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 6:46pm

This is actually a very interesting discussion. I haven't seen the documentary yet, and I'm afraid it might be hard to find now.