2007 Best Book of a Musical Tony Award Winner Speculation- Page 4

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 5:02pm

Shut up, bitch. ::slap::

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 5:03pm

But I sit here every day and respond to everything you say about my "Curtains crap." Don't call me a chicken!

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 5:48pm

Back to Tony Award Categories. In the history of the Tony Awards which began in 1947 there were years when there was the category of "Best Authors of a Musical" which started in 1949 and went to 1965. Wouldn't this be the same idea as "Best Book of a Musical"?
Then in 1971, the category "Best Book of a Musical" was instituted, with the winner being George Furth for COMPANY. That category has remained to this day.

As for "Best Score", it started officially in 1972 with FOLLIES composer-lyricist Stephen Sondheim winning. Prior to 1972, there were years when there were separate categories for music and lyrics, and years when there was only a category for "Best Composer", with the lyricist included in the category of "Best Musical".

These facts came from the book THE TONY AWARD, c. 1987 by The American Theatre Wing.

[neddyfrank2]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 5:55pm

I know this has nothing to do with the topic but since you brought up old Tony categories, I think they should bring back Best Conductor and Musical Director.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 6:18pm

Gypsy9-We more or less covered that territory. But thanks for the detailed inclusion. We pretty much all agreed that there should be separate categories of Best Music and Best Lyrics again. What do you think?

[Just_John]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 6:26pm

I think Best book of a Musical this year should go to Curtains. I LOVE Grey Gardens and really am hoping it wins best musical. But I saw Curtains last night and all I was thinking was how good the book was. It's all it deserves to win, but it definately deserves to win it.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 6:31pm

I agree that best composer and best lyricist should be separate categories. And I also agree that there should be a category for best conductor-musical director. The last time that category existed was in 1964 when Shepard Coleman won for HELLO DOLLY. It should be remembered that the pit conductor usually does the vocal arrangements as well. It is an under-appreciated job.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 7:41pm

GREY GARDENS is going to suffer from SUNDAY IN THE PARK syndrome. Where people will b*tch and complain that the 2 acts don't connect, and that one of the acts isn't needed.

But we know that is bull. Both shows are brilliant. I just don't think people want to open up their minds to the material. They have the ability to "get" the material - but in many cases I don't think they "want" to get the material.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 7:49pm

Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous to compare Grey Gardens to the brilliance that is Sunday in the Park? (there goes all my dignity of not being a Sondheim worshipper...)

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 8:25pm

^ I think GREY GARDENS is pretty brilliant. Now if people were saying GARDENS is the next FOLLIES, I would have to disagree. BUT I think GREY GARDENS is strong enough to stand against SUNDAY.

[TapTapTapioca]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 8:51pm

I think that Grey Gardens is as strong as Sunday In The Park With George is. Also if you look at the two they have a lot in common.

[desiree armfeldt]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 9:09pm

i think grey gardens has this one in the bag.

[jv92]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 9:42pm

Grey Gardens' two acts are connected perhaps even more than the two acts of Sunday in the Park are. I'm not knocking Sunday either. It's one of my absolutle favorite shows.
I will compare Grey Gardens to Follies though. I think it's the Follies of this generation.

[Sondheim Geek]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 9:53pm

Grey Gardens is in NO WAY like Sunday. Besides the differences between the two acts, I can't find ONE other similarity. I also think Sunday is a far better piece.

And yes, I am a crazy, rabid, Sondheim obsessor who is terribly in love with SitPwG.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 9:55pm

The two acts is how they are similar. Otherwise you can't compare them.

I wouldn't say one is better than the other because they are so different and aren't trying to accomplish the same things. Sunday... is about creating art/letting people in/connecting, Grey Gardens is not. It's much more of a human interest piece.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 10:24pm

Okay, I'll try to keep this brief.

SUNDAY has perfect parallellism between the score and the subject manner. The score is as pointilistic as the piece. Many elements of the score sound just like the dots that Seurat is putting on the painting. Most of the songs are as fragmented as Seurat's painting is, and is incredibly dissonant, until the very end of act 1 when the painting comes together, the fragmented melodies come together to form one, united beautiful song. George and Dot's melodies do the same at the end of the second act to form "Move On."

In terms of the two acts themselves, the melody of "Art Isn't Easy" emerges directly from the melody of "Finishing the Hat." One of the many ways the non-linear acts are connected.

And pretty much the point of act 2 is the way it connects to act 1--George must find his way to connect to Seaurat, to the painting, to the beauty in it, and the passion that Seurat had for the art--and Dot, from act 1 helps him to do this.

A parallel between the relationship of Seurat to Dot and George to art...

The parallel I mentioned between the end of act 1 and the end of act 2, and the parallelism between the beginning and ending of the show, George/Seurat with the blank canvas.

Can you attribute such connections, plus just ingenius aspects of the score connecting to the piece as a whole, to Grey Gardens? I personally don't believe so.

Also realize I purposely avoided the themes themselves because it's easy to see how SUNDAY's theme allows for more...well, you could start incorrectly arguing it's better because of its theme which is unfair.

(For the record, I think Sunday isn't perfect...if you don't love art or Sondheim, it's very difficult to stay awake at the beginning...sorry, had to go that in)

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 10:29pm

Good presentation, wicked, but I wil reiterate, you can't compare the two. They are entirely different.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/27/07 at 10:32pm

But how many shows can you say that about? How could you possibly choose the best musical of the year if you can't compare two shows that are entirely different?

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 12:39am

I agree they are different shows. But there is no doubt it's going to suffer from the SUNDAY criticisms - about how the two acts don't connect.

And I think that's all a bunch of bull. I find the connection between the two acts in both shows.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 1:03am

"How could you possibly choose the best musical of the year if you can't compare two shows that are entirely different?"
What? Can you specify what you meant by that?

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 12:12pm

Okay...to decide who wins the best musical Tony means comparing all the shows of the season to say which is best, right? Chances are some of the shows in the season are as different as Grey Gardens and Sunday, but they still have to choose which is the best. So my point in that is no matter how different shows are and no matter how much you think you can't compare the two, somehow when awards are given out they do get compared, so if that can happen for award season, I don't buy that you can't compare these two shows because they're so different, and you still can say which is better.

(BTW, loove your av! My favorite movie of all time)

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 2:04pm

I have thought over the premise that "Best Music" and "Best Lyrics" should once again be separate Tony categories as they sometimes were prior to 1972. I have changed my mind. The writing of music and lyrics is a collaborative process. Sondheim, of course, has no problem because he writes both music and lyrics. But "Best Score" combining music and lyrics is I think the best solution for the Tony category. Just think of the famous teams through the years: George and Ira Gershwin, Rodgers and Hart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Dietz and Schwartz, Kander and Ebb, Jule Styne and Comden & Green, Sondheim and Bernstein, Sondheim and Styne, Sondheim and Rodgers, Cy Coleman and Carolyn Leigh. It's the teaming of two talents that has produced the majority of the successful musicals of the 20th Century. (The 21st Century has yet to produce a notable new team). The fact that sometimes one is superior to the other goes with the territory. It is the combination of talents that counts.I think the Tony Awards have it right with this category.

Updated On: 5/28/07 at 02:04 PM

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 2:44pm

Thanks, wicked, but I think that when deciding Best Musical from the nominees we have this year, I don't compare and say which one is "better". Or even with most shows. There are cases when some shows are similar to others, and I think then it is fair to compare them. But when I decide what I think should win Best Musical, I don't compare the nominees. In a way, I do, but not how you do it.

For example, I compare which show's scores were the strongest based on a) memorable melodies, b) witty or appropriate lyrics and c) how well it merges into the libretto. I don't think it's as easy as saying, "This one is better." The same goes for the libretto, was it a) an interesting plot or situation, b) include interesting and well developed characters, c) were the songs integrated well into the story and if not, was it intentional and d) was the dramatic arch in the end effective and relevant? Then there's the whole case of the production itself: did it ever drag, was every physical aspect complimentary towards the whole show, how were the performances, etc.

I see what you're saying, but I still don't really compare shows such as Grey Gardens and Spring Awakening, let alone Grey Gardens and Sunday. I could compare the score of Sunday to another Sondheim score based on whether I think his contributions were greater in one score than the other. And the only way I could specifically compare Sunday and Grey Gardens is how each show handled the juxtaoposition of Act 1 and 2. Were the themes more apparent in one than the other? Did one feel more irrelevant than the other? Stuff like that.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 2:54pm

And Gypsy9, I see where you're coming from but I think that if the lyrics/music was truly a collaborative experience than I see no problem for both "composer" and "lyricist" being nominated for Music and Lyrics. I just think that so many times that Best Score is such a tricky process to vote for. The best example is this year. I think that both Grey Gardens and Spring Awakening have excellent scores, but one could argue which is better. I, personally, feel that the music is Spring Awakening is so beautiful and new and nothing like Broadway has ever heard before...but those lyrics! There are times that Sater writes rather well ("The Bitch of Living" contains some of his best in the show) but other times it's just confusing and banal. I've never had a problem with Grey Gardens lyrics, rather they are always consistently clever or heartbreaking. It's music is gorgeous, too, but if I were to award Best Music to one, it would be Spring Awakening.

But that doesn't mean I think it deserves Best Score. And that's the dilemma. Does Best Music immediately mean Best Score? Best Lyrics? Not always, and sometimes I feel that the lyrics factor is often ignored when voting these days for Best Score. Which it shouldn't be.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/28/07 at 3:29pm

I agree with you that the music of a show is often paid more attention to than the lyrics, at least I tend to favor the music over the lyrics. I am amazed that I sometimes don't pick up on a lyric until I've played the CD over many times. That's a problem with me, I know, and it's not fair to the lyricist.

When I lived in NYC for 32 years I was a member of the St. Cecilia Chorus for that length of time. Most of what we sang was either in Latin or German and most of the time there was no translation in our music scores. So, it was the music that I paid attention to, along with the correct pronunciation of the words in German and Latin. So maybe there was a carry over of that factor to my always emphasizing the music first. But I am rambling...

Updated On: 5/28/07 at 03:29 PM