Anyone seeing FOLLIES in LA tonight?- Page 6

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 2:36pm

About the same effect it had in the original, when Phyllis wore red all night long.

No, a lesser effect. You're planning on having the two leading ladies wear the same color all night long?

Why not just do an all-red Follies?

With a red set too, while you're at it.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 3:30pm

Obviously you can have interpretations of the script, but this insistence that Sally would never wear read because "red is Phyllis' color" (whatever that means) is just ludicrous. There's nothing in the script or the stage directions or in anything the authors have said about it that indicate Sally cannot wear red.

OK, Liza, your turn: what does a red dress tell us about Sally's character?

(I mean other than that she is being played by a star who fears she will be upstaged by Jan Maxwell.)

***

Carlos, et al.: Nobody is arguing that costumes must be a certain way because color is dictated by the libretto or the original production. (Except that Sally should not be in green. On that the lyric is clear.)

We're arguing our view of what best reveals the character. That is a legitimate function of costume design and a legitimate subject for discussion, just like any other aspect of performance.

Updated On: 5/6/12 at 03:30 PM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 3:39pm

All red?

I'd be out to LA in a flash for the Harmonia Gardens effect!

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 3:42pm

Nealb, thank you for the box office information. (An Ahmanson subscriber secured my tix with her subscription discount, so I'm not up on other ways to save money there.)

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:02pm

No, a lesser effect. You're planning on having the two leading ladies wear the same color all night long?

But Phyllis didn't wear red in this production, so that's irrelevant. If Phyllis in '71 can wear red all evening and then come out in red for Loveland and it's effective, then it stands to reason Sally's choice of red in '11 isn't going to have some kind of debilitating effect on Phyllis' Loveland entrance.

OK, Liza, your turn: what does a red dress tell us about Sally's character?

It means when she picked out the dress, she thought, "I want to to win back from ex-lover. How shall I do this? Oh, yes, with this exquisite red dress!"

You all are obsessed with the choices made in the original, and are incapable of just accepting that subsequent productions are not going to be the original, and that maybe -- MAYBE -- someone else will have a different interpretation than you that works just as well.

Also, if the color of Sally's dress is so integral to the musical that red will ruin it, then the musical itself is hopelessly flawed.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:12pm

Fair enough, lizabombs. If you think a costume reflects nothing more than a shopping choice, then that is one way to go.

What some of us are talking about is color as a reflection of inner character. Much of Phyllis' story is about how she repressed her own passionate nature to be the woman she thought Ben needed her to be (and in the process suppressed the very woman with whom Ben fell in love). Her costumes can be a key to that.

And for the record, the "big reveal" in the original was that Phyllis wore a lighter red from neck to toe throughout the party, then came out in an even deeper red for Loveland. More importantly, she went from maxi- to mini-skirt, revealing an astonishing pair of legs.

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:16pm

Fair enough, lizabombs. If you think a costume reflects nothing more than a shopping choice, then that is one way to go.

Obviously I'll never win this argument. I guess we'll just leave it with me thinking there are more ways than one to interpret Sally's character, and you thinking that your way is the only true way, and everyone else be damned.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:22pm

[Kad]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:31pm

...let's put it this way: there is a reason not everyone is suited to being a costume designer.

Colors (not to mention things like line, silhouette, cut, etc.) all say something about a character... and have meaning.

Sally coming in wearing a bright red dress signals to the audience: "This character is fiery. This character is lusty. This character is passionate. This character is confident and strong. This character is bold."

Sally's not.

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:35pm

So the only way you learn about a character is what costume they're wearing the first time you see them? That's just insane.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:40pm

Yep. That's exactly what Kad said.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:42pm

Within the past year, this board has had an influx of annoying new posters without avatars.

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:44pm

Well, clearly I was paraphrasing. But that is in essence what he said: that by entering in the "wrong" color, the audience won't know she's bold or passionate when she's really weak and needy. Sorry, but if the script is strong enough, it won't matter what color her dress is. And when I saw her in DC with family members who didn't know anything about the show, they somehow figured it out, red dress and all.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:46pm

You didn't paraphrase, you (deliberately) misinterpreted.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 4:58pm

Kad, while I agree that the red dress didn't work on Peters, a gaping hole in your argument is that the character of Sally could have chosen a red dress to deliberately project the traits you say the color signifies, knowing she herself doesn't posses them but hoping others may think she does.

If an audience can intuit characteristics based on color, characters can be smart enough to want others to intuit them too, particularly in the case of someone like Sally who is trying so hard to project a false exterior.

Updated On: 5/6/12 at 04:58 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 5:09pm

"Who made your dress? Or did YOU make it?"

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 5:15pm

The revival shortened that line.
It became "where did you get your dress?"

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 5:18pm

They probably changed it because of Bernadette.

While we're at it, I would have given Sally a different hairdo, too. Bernadette's tousled, curly Bernadette wig didn't really work for me.

Updated On: 5/6/12 at 05:18 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 5:23pm

Well they actually did alter the wig a bit for the transfer to Broadway. But it's still fairly similar.










Updated On: 5/6/12 at 05:23 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 5:56pm

Well, clearly I was paraphrasing. But that is in essence what he said

Whenever you say that, you seem to be dead wrong. Whenever you make assumptions about the attitudes behind what people say, you seem to put words into their mouths, words which you then triumphantly disagree with.

I guarantee you that everyone in this thread who disagrees with the Kennedy Center red dress is an intelligent, theater-loving poster and that NONE of us think there is one single "only true way" to interpret the character. Nor is it a conspiracy. Each of us has come to that decision on our own. No one said Greg Barnes had to make one design choice and one only. All of us thought the red dress was wrong--and apparently he did too, because he changed in from DC to NY.

So why is it so important to you to justify a decision the costume designer himself reconsidered?

[HorseTears]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 6:03pm

I have closing night tickets. I wonder if Mr. S will show up (unlikely, I know). I don't think I can hold out until then, so I'll probably be going for HotTix for an earlier performance as well. BTW, I saw the subscriber discount code mentioned, but I don't think anyone mentioned GoldStar. GoldStar currently has discount tickets (front rows, Mez, $47.50-55.00/ea) for performances through May 13. Given the current box office, I'm sure it's very likely that GoldStar will release additional blocks of tickets after May 13th.

My closing night tickets are for front row, center, balcony. Never sat in the balcony at the Ahmanson. Do you think I'll be good?
GoldStar - Discount Follies Tickets thru May 13th

[indytallguy]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 7:08pm

inlovewithjerryherman,

I know you already got one response, but let me off another perspective. I saw Follies in DC once and twice in NYC, as well as saw the Chicago production twice.

As far as pulling me into the show completely, Chicago won hands down. It's hard for me to determine how much of that is due to the uniqueness of that theatre compared to the Marquis. I tend to think it was less about the physical space alone and more about how that space led to a show in which the characters inhabited their parts and the environment in very personal ways.

I loved most of the performances in the Broadway production, but always felt a bit distant. DC/NYC felt more presentational to me compared to the intimacy of Chicago. And I thought Holly Resnik's characterization and performance of I'm Still Here was a league above Elaine Paige's.



Updated On: 5/6/12 at 07:08 PM

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 7:11pm

So why is it so important to you to justify a decision the costume designer himself reconsidered?

My main point was that your insistence that Sally can't wear a red dress is baffling. And instead of just disagreeing, you told me I should think first before posting, as if somehow my opinion is wrong and yours is right because, well, because you say so. Sorry, bud. My opinion is as valid as yours, unless you are Mr. Sondheim himself or the ghost of James Goldman.

It's beyond hilarious to watch folks here treat an opinion -- e.g., "Sally's red dress in DC was a valid choice" -- as if it's on par with blasphemy. I don't really care about the dress much, aside from thinking it's something a desperate woman would wear to snatch back an old lover. I wish I had known that you guys were the ones who decided which "Follies" directorial choices were OK and which were made with no thought.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 7:27pm

hilarious to watch folks here treat an opinion...as if it's on par with blasphemy

There you go again. No one did.

[lizabombs]

Posted: 5/6/12 at 7:34pm

Girl, please.