Arthur Laurents Pity Thread- Page 5

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:17pm

"And PJ is one of the least vindictive, counter-attacking posters in this thread."

That is the funniest thing I have ever read in my life!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:19pm

And he second funniest thing is the "Jerome Robbins box" Credit- "Entire production directed and choreographed by." In one fell swoop he diminishes the credit of ever other director & choreographer in the world. Good Work, Jerry.

[LadyDramaturg2]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:24pm

Forgive me, I'll try not to dwell too much on the score -- very hard for me.
Don't apologize, the fact that the music (coupled with the dance, as PJ has just pointed out) conveys so much storytelling is one of the things that made Bernstein peerless.

I'm certain that however much he struggled with his need to be the Greatest of the Greats, it must have thrilled Lenny to have his music expressed so magnificently and eloquently by Robbins choreography (and directorial integration). Arthur must have felt so pushed aside.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:35pm

I find it hard to feel pity - my heart is still stone and a little bit behind having lost three excruciating hours of my life to the mess called 'LUPONE Gypsy'.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:35pm

Arthur always said that Lenny was "afraid" of Jerry, but their successful theater and dance collaborations were such a perfect marriage-of-minds that they really completed each other

I think they knew that.

[LadyDramaturg2]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:56pm

Well, if Arthur always said that Lenny was "afraid of" Jerry, that suggests that Arthur was projecting his own fear of and intimidation by Jerry onto Lenny.

The idea that they "completed each other" (even if only artistically), it must have been a peak experience for both of them -- exhilarating. Geniuses, equals, meeting on the mountaintop.

You might be likely to pity someone who was pushed aside, if he weren't so damned nasty.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 12:58pm

Oh believe me Lady, I know. I've been accused of posting Bernstein West Side Story dissertations in the past -- one reason I was trying not to go there.

But I always said between the music and dance, WSS can be told without words. You could follow everything because of the movement and music.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 1:10pm

I think you have to give Bernstein credit- he and Sondheim did compose the ENTIRE score.

[LadyDramaturg2]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 1:12pm

Ah, yes. Right. The other God on the mountaintop. Sorry.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 3:52pm

I have an honest question for you, PJ.

How come you do not feel Arthur ruined Robbin's name and work with the GYPSY revival? He made several cuts, and he also changed the ending there too. But you LOVED that production. Why is there a difference? How come you do not believe he destroyed that revival? Are you more emotionally connected to WSS, because you were involved with the first revival?

Just an honest question.
Updated On: 5/7/09 at 03:52 PM

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 3:55pm

That's the crime here: Arthur resented that the nonverbal storytelling was more emotional than the words of his book, so he used this revival to destroy that beauty.

The more I think about that, the more I realize it's true.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 4:10pm

Gypsy is not the same animal. What was special about Gypsy was always the book. The changes he made for the Lansbury, Daly and Lupone revivals were interesting to talk about (i.e. the Christmas number), but they didn't remove any significant artistry from the project.

What was special about West Side was the dance/theater collaboration between Bernstein and Robbins. Arthur knew that and hated that with a depth of hatred very few of us will ever know in our lives.

This production removes everything Robbins put into it to make it beautiful.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 4:14pm

What Christmas number?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 4:26pm

I believe it was instead of the Garden of Eden number.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 4:28pm

Yes, go here for a great summing up of the battle between Robbins and Laurents over the Christmas tree.
Gypsy's long lost Stripper Christmas Tree and why it's now Eden

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 7:03pm

Well, the other thing with Gypsy, is Robbins was never really happy with it. He wanted it to be more like a burlesque show, and had even auditioned acts for it.

That and dance is almost non-existant in the piece.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 8:07pm

I'm pretty sure it was Sondheim who said in the ROBBINS documentary:
"Lenny was afraid of two things, God and Jerome Robbins".

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/7/09 at 9:10pm

Yes, you're right--I remember that from the documentary.

The difference is when Sondheim said Lenny was afraid of Jerry, he was describing both of them with admiration. When Arthur says it, he's calling Lenny "weak."

[bk]

Posted: 5/9/09 at 5:52pm

I'm just back from the WSS revival. I completely understand why folks like Without A Trace, who are undoubtedly VERY young and have admitted having no prior history with this piece, enjoy and love the show. The show has been criticized in the past as being dated and silly in today's times, and nothing could be further from the truth. The SHOW is, as it always has been, fantastic. The score is still breathtaking and fresh. Even Arthur's book is fine. What is not fine is Arthur the director. Arthur the director has trivialized and ruined this production. There are so many idiotic directorial and performance choices and it began to nauseate me almost immediately. This is a "presentational" West Side Story, not an emotional one. You see it right in the first number when they're relating more to the audience than each other. Say what? Others have explained why the ending is so compromised in this revival and I have to agree - I have not seen the film once (and I have seen it probably 100 times) without getting choked up at "the" moment. I didn't get choked up here - in fact, I just wanted to choke the director. The changes to Officer Krupke were disgusting, as were a few other choreographic changes and especially arrangement changes.

I saw the Tony cover - he was not very good - and if that's how Matt Cavanaugh plays the role, well, it's just not any Tony I would understand or care about. One of the things Arthur said he wanted to "right" was that the gang in the original wasn't dangerous and menacing enough. Say what? The original was perfectly cast - here we get poseurs playing at being tough. I know the youngsters here are all hot and bothered by Curtis Holbrook for reasons that have nothing to do with West Side Story, but his performance is a joke. I'm sure he's a talented person, but his is a one-note neo-Nazi performance that goes nowhere. The "direction" with Maria acting like a crazed Arnold Schwarzenegger with the gun made me want to vomit on the ground. And still, Mr. Holbrook was a leering, grinning neo-Nazi - I mean, honestly, did Mr. Laurents just forget what his show is about?

Josephina could not have been prettier, but I found her voice a little colorless, and her acting so low-key that she barely registered for me. But, again, maybe that's why the kiddies love it so - because that's what actors do on TV and in film these days - mumble and speak so low that you can't even hear them. I could barely understand a word she said. Miss Olivo probably seems fine to those who've never seen anyone else do the role - I thought she was okay, but didn't get half the laughs that other Anitas have. That's probably Mr. Laurents working his "magic".

As to the Spanish - ridiculous and harmful. I Feel Pretty was pointless to ninety percent of those in attendance as was the rest of it. A few lines, sure, that would have been fine.

And I just have to laugh when I read a comment abut the "briliant" staging of the Quintet and giving credit to Arthur. There's a group stage left, there's a group stage right, there are people mid-stage and upstage. BRILLIANT!

There was much cheering a la American Idol from the matinee crowd - gee, think a lot of B'wayworld folks were there? Because it was ALL young kids doing the whooping and hollering, which also made me want to vomit on the ground.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/9/09 at 6:57pm

He's not THAT young.

Good points bk.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 5/9/09 at 7:13pm

It's way past his directing career time.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/9/09 at 7:50pm

Well, said. Except for vomiting on the cheering teenagers. I've come to be glad about the cheering teenagers (and 20somethings and older), because ultimately Arthur's misdirection and the mediocre performances will be forgotten and what they will remember is Lenny's music and Jerry's conception.

The music and the dance ARE what is West Side Story and they live on.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 5/9/09 at 8:09pm

he's like Mama Rose he can't leave the business

[bk]

Posted: 5/10/09 at 1:30am

Oh, I would never vomit ON the teenagers. I just get to the point where I no longer want to go to the theater to hear that stuff - it really annoys me. Just not the way I was brought up, I guess.

Bernstein's score is brilliant as was Robbin's conception, choreography, and original direction. The problem here is that the score has been mucked about with and I find that reprehensible.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/10/09 at 12:00pm

As much as I have issues with this production, I wouldn't really say the score was "mucked with." I mean, the nightmare was cut, which yes, that was very mucked with, and really pisses me off. I think the only other thing that really bothered me was the removal of the distorted "America" that plays during the rape, here, the Mambo just continues.

The smaller changes I noticed that didn't drive me crazy...the transition between the Cha-Cha and Jump used to be Promenade, now it's the Mambo, which I actually prefer the slowing down of and contrasting of.

Let's see...other small changes I noticed is the removal of a one-measure drum solo in Jet Song, the "Pow" at the end, there is new music put before the Rumble while the set goes into place, people seem to like that, the Entracte was cut a bit.

But that's it. Thank god, the Tony solo is back in "Balcony Scene" so...the score could have been mucked with much more than it was, and for that, I'm grateful.