Bob Fosse is rolling over in his grave right now...- Page 2

[B3TA07]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 12:26am

That was fierce.

[LeadingDude]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 12:31am

"Thank God Broadway never borrows ideas from pop-culture!!! "

I'm sorry to say it but pop-culture has a huge affect on broadway. For example, Grease and Legally Blonde doing reality shows to find their stars and although shows such as In the Heights and Spring Awakening are good, the music in the show is influenced by music you would here on the radio right now. So, broadway borrows a lot of ideas from pop-culture and by the way it's looking...it won't stop.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 12:37am

And Madonna reused Jack Cole also.

It's no big news, but when it is done with some sort of creativity, that's the Magic.

[choitoy]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 4:52am

Upon first viewing of this video, I saw more Bennett than Fosse (though there is some obvious "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This" going on here). Bennett's style always seemed a little more "wiggily" to me (like Beyonce is doing here), and Fosse was a little more restrained. Beyonce outright emulating Fosse was already done in "Get Me Bodied", so I guess she really couldn't mine that one again.

So with this in mind, when I got to the end, I thought to myself "this really seems like some updated choreography for an updated "Turkey Lurkey Time".
So I muted the video, fired up my "Promises, Promises" iTunes rip, and had at it. It actually synched up pretty well.

I guess this video doesn't upset me (and make me think that Fosse is spinning in his grave) as much as the "Get Me Bodied" video. That was almost an outright copy (way past the "homage" stage), where there should have been some sort of credit going on. What gets my goat is that most of Beyonce's fan-base didn't even get the reference (let's face it, how many of Beyonce's fans, besides us theatre queens, are gonna get that it's a rip from "Sweet Charity", and think that Beyonce thought it up herself?). Here, with this video, it seems more like an homage to the dance styles of choreographer's past (with it taking place in that white room, and her pulling that weird Sasha Fierce persona).

One thing I will say though is that the girl has some pretty good dance talent.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 9:07am

"Speaking of Pop-Culture I'm taking a class on it it school, one of the only schools in NY state to offer it."

I went to college in PA and my school offered a class on Pop Culture. I also took "Bob Dylan and the Beatles", "Women go to the Movies", and "Literature of New York City". I was going to take "The History of Rock and Roll" and "The Films of Vietnam" but they were at the same time as required classes.

[logan0215]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 11:17am

choitoy, although Bennett-esque, there are literal dance moves lifted directly from "Mexican Breakfast" and "There's Gotta Be"

Brody, I agree, but that Britney Speary commercial is a bit of a stretch. Thats much less Fosse as its more stripper+chair a la her "Stronger" video.

Updated On: 10/22/08 at 11:17 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 11:39am

I've never understood the notion that Broadway somehow needs to be not only placed on a golden pedestal, but should be alienated from the rest of the world by an olympic team of snobby theatre queens. Broadway is not sacred and it has proven time and again that it has no more pride or shame in its art than it does in its crap or commercialism. It begs, borrows and steals from the rest of the world, so why can't the rest of the world do the same?

Updated On: 10/22/08 at 11:39 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 11:50am

I honestly don't see much Michael Bennett style in this video. Its Fosse/Jack Cole with hip-hop.

I think thats a great point Matt. I'm always a little amused when territorial threads pop up on this board. Here we have a poster upset because what will probably end up being one of the biggest smash hit music videos of the year was inspired by a Broadway choreographer. Why wouldn't anyone be thrilled? Not only has Beyonce gone on record as saying this is a tribute to Fosse and Verdon, there are now half a dozen videos on the net comparing "Ladies" to the original "Mexican Breakfast" routine.

That basically means several thousand people who would have had never had any idea who Fosse or Gwen Verdon are are going to now be familiar with their work.

And the problem is? That the club has now gone mainstream? I don't get it...

[Mistress Overdone]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 12:02pm

I like it when "pop culture" (by which I guess you mean pop music?) borrows from Broadway, actually... it makes new converts... using Broadway choreography is a lot more pleasing to the eye than a lot of what passes for dancing...

Agree completely.

[LadyDramaturg2]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 12:04pm

eeegads. You call that dancing?

And this idea about pop ("pop"ular) culture invading/infesting musical theater -- a minor note about a little show called "Hair" -- this thing they're doing now? It's a REVIVAL. It actually opened in the -- like -- '60s. ...Yes! Really!

So wait, that's like, what, forty years ago? And I think I read somewhere that in the fifties, "show" tunes made their way to the Radio...and they became "popular" hits!

yikes

[logan0215]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 1:38pm

Agreed MB.

Just look at the comments posted on the second video in the thread with Single Ladies behind Mexican Breakfast. Negative or positive toward, people are at least seeing the connection and giving respect to where the current incarnation came from.

It also slightly reminds me of the (help me out where it is from originally) commercial last year that had Audrey Hepburn dancing to "Back in Black" in (GAP?) dark skinny jeans.

EDIT: Found it. GAP 2006

link

Updated On: 10/22/08 at 01:38 PM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 2:22pm

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 2:37pm

Spoken like Bill Samson, Mister Matt!

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 2:44pm

rentaholic, that "Get Me Bodied" video rocks! There is a thread here that Eugene started where you play the sound from the "Single Ladies" video and watch "Something Better Than This" from Sweet Charity, the movie. it was fun.

I love that Beyonce' is infusing some Broadway into her videos. She caught the bug when she saw "Nine". I saw an interview with her where she talked about it. And it was discussed here at the time. I think it was at the MTV Awards where she made her entrance for her performance lowered on a phone cord. It was pretty fabulous.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 2:45pm

LOL @ Wildcard!!!

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 2:47pm

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.cfm?boardid=1&boardname=bway&thread=982026#3698937

[kyleorlando]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 3:58pm

Was there this much vitriol when Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted Snake" video came out? Beyonce is hardly the first to mine the work of other choreographers for inspiration.

Updated On: 10/23/08 at 03:58 PM

[StockardFan]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 4:38pm

LeadingDude, Wildcard was being sarcastic......

[BNN]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 4:48pm

Fun story: At lunch today, a table of theatre majors were talking about this video and saying they wanted to learn the choreography and said it looked like some kind of Tina Turner movement.

So being the rude lunch-interrupter that I am, I leaned over and reminded them it was actually a Bob Fosse/Jack Cole mix. They said they didn't know who those people were so I ran away.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 4:50pm

They're theatre majors and they don't know who Bob Fosse is? LOL!!!

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 5:51pm

Maybe they were asleep in class.

Posted: 10/22/08 at 5:54pm

Um...when musicals started dying in the late 70's....pop artists like Michael and Madonna resurged the musical format in form of music videos.
Beat it/ west side story----material girl/gentlemen prefer blondes...

and so on and so on....

i think it's great to bring that kind of world to a young audience.

i always remind my young friends...where all of it came from.

including beyonce...i think its great.

[choitoy]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 7:34pm

Going back and watching the Single Ladies video, Mexican Breakfast, and Turkey Lurkey Time, I see that a lot was taken from Mexican Breakfast, but I still feel that Beyonce still would be a little better suited with Bennett. Fosse's style always seemed a little bit more angular and deliberate (for lack of better terms), while Bennett always felt a little bit more looser and organic (again for lack of a better term). This is coming from someone who is not (clearly) trained in dance, but is going off what I have seen.

"Single Ladies" was Fosse's dance moves, reinterpreted slightly by Bennett and filtered through a hip-hop choreographer's beat.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 8:03pm

I LOVE IT. She looks great and the dancers hit the choreography. whats the problem

[thesondhead]

Posted: 10/22/08 at 8:11pm

I agree with NYC4Life. The video is stylish and electric. I think its homage to Fosse makes it that much better.