Broadway Theaters - how do they work?

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:41am

Can someone explain to me how Broadway theaters work? Can anyone buy property and construct a theater on Broadway and then it automatically comes a Broadway theater? Or how does it all work? Do you have to have a certain number so seats, etc. to make it a Broadway theater. How far "away" from Broadway can it be to still be considered a Broadway theater.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 2:08am

It has to be a theatre where theatre is performed. Usually, theatres considered "on broadway" are either right off of broadway, or between B-way and the two streets (7th and 8th avenue) that are on either side of Broadway.

It's really not all that complicated.

[blaxx]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 2:16am

Actually, I think it is more than that.
I believe they need to be officially recognized as part of the Broadway circuit, which right now has 39 theatres, and soon 40.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 2:27am

actually in order to be considered a Broadway house the theatre must have a certain amount of seats. that is *I believe* the only real qualification...

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 3:20am

I dont think # of seats is the issue, cuz that's really up to the house and how much $$ they want to make.

[stage_door76]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 3:47am

no, CATSNYrevival is definitely right.

broadway theaters versus off broadway theaters are determined by audience capacity.



...The difference between a Broadway production and an Off-Broadway production has to do with the number of seats in a theater. Broadway theaters must have 500 or more seats. An Off-Broadway theater must have 100 to 499 seats. An Off-Off-Broadway theater has 99 seats or less...

SEE THE REASON HERE

[Liz_Bennet]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 9:20am

Although there is a minimum seat requirement, 500, (one theater, I believe the Helen Hayes, is one or two seats under, but was granfathered), it must also be located within a certain geographic area. The only Broadway theater not located in this area is the Vivian Beaumont.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 10:05am

"Although there is a minimum seat requirement, 500, (one theater, I believe the Helen Hayes, is one or two seats under, but was granfathered), it must also be located within a certain geographic area. The only Broadway theater not located in this area is the Vivian Beaumont."

Yes and No. I think the League of Producers (or whatever its called) has to agree that it is considered Broadway house, because union scale differs in Broadway and off-Broadway productions. Maybe Margo knows more?

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 10:15am

I know that seating compacity plays into it, because I remember it being in the news in the '80s about the current Helen Hayes Theatre (which I think used to be called "The Little Theatre," since the original Helen Hayes Theatre was torn down)... There was a debate about whether this one qualified as a Broadway theatre, because it was under the minimum number of seats. I imagine other criteria plays into it as well, but "size" definitely matters here.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 10:33am

The factors like seat capacity and geography that have been mentioned are all correct. But the contracts also come into play. Broadway theatres (including the non-profit theatres) operate on a different production contract from theatres like City Center or the Beacon.

Also, Fosse76 is correct that in the case of Henry Miller's Theatre, the producers of Cabaret had to petition the Tony Admininstration Committee for Tony eligibility for that theatre.

There were some Broadway theatres on the periphery of the current theatre district like the New Century (at 58th Street and Seventh Avenue), the real Ziegfeld Theatre (on Sixth Avenue at 54th Street), and the Harkness (62nd Street and Broadway), that if they were around today would extend the current geographical boundaries of 54th Street (with the exception of the Vivian Beaumont at Lincoln Center).

The Helen Hayes has 589 seats in its current configuration. That 499 seat rule applied to some theatres that are no longer around: the Criterion Center, the Rialto, the Princess, and the Playhouse.

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 10:33 AM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 10:49am

First off, the Helen Hayes (the smallest Broadway house) has 597 seats).

Second, I've answered this one a few times, so pardon me if I just cut and paste an earlier response:

"The designation of "Broadway" is actually just a determination of the League of American Theatres -- a tiny little exclusive club of the people who own the current Broadway houses and co-produce the Tonys every year. While, yes, all Broadway houses have at least 500 seats, it's not as if every theatrical venue in New York city with over 500 seats (Radio City, The Beacon, The Apollo, The Delacorte) is a Broadway house.

Look at the Delacorte -- it has 1900 seats and is dedicated solely to the production of professional legitimate theatre ...... but it's ONLY not considered a Broadway house because the League says it's not a Broadway house (and they principally don't include the Delacorte because it's purely not-for-profit and subsidized by the state and corporate donors -- the only people who get to be in their "Broadway" club are those who take the same sorts of finanicial risks that they do) .

THEY decide who gets to join their club and who doesn't, based on their own whims. 20 years ago, Porgy and Bess played at Radio City. Because it was an expensive for-profit venture (and some of their producer buddies were co-producing it), guess what? Radio City Music Hall became a Broadway, Tony-eligible house for that production (and that production only). The League does whatever they wants and makes all the rules and decisions which are in their best interest -- basically they can designate any theatre in NYC a Broadway house if they want to ...... as long as the owner (and the producers of the shows playing there) are willing to pay the price.

Additionally, certain specific contracts are negotiated with each Broadway theatre by each union (Equity, Local One, Local 802 etc.....).

Off-Broadway is sort of the default category for all those theatres that aren't deemed Broadway theatres. Most have 100 to 499 seats, but then BAM has two theatres (each with 1000+ seats), which are also considered off-Broadway. These theatres all also have contracts with the major theatrical unions, with minimums determined by the number of seats.

Off-Off-Broadway generally denotes theatres with fewer than 100 seats (there are hundreds of them in town, often called "black box theatres") as well as other venues which aren't exclusively dedicated to theatrical production (churches, outdoor spaces etc). The main thing that makes a theatre "Off-Off-Broadway" is the fact that it has no specific contracts with the major unions (though Equity showcase rules do apply).

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 10:49 AM

[FeelingElectric]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:22pm

I took the Broadway tour last week and the nice lady conducting the tour mentioned two requirements to be concidered a broadway theatre.

1.Your theater needs to have at least 499 seats.
2.Your theatre must be for-profit.

I am not sure if these are the only requirements, but that is how she explained it.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:25pm

She was wrong and needs to be replaced.

The Biltmore (Manhattan Theatre Club), Studio 54 (Roundabout), American Airlines Theatre (Roundabout) and the Vivian Beaumont (Lincoln Center) are all owned and operated by "not-for-profit" companies and they are all Broadway theatres.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:38pm

Although one wonders if the Longacre is a for-profit house. 'Well' will break the curse!

[Fosse76]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 12:58pm

"She was wrong and needs to be replaced.

The Biltmore (Manhattan Theatre Club), Studio 54 (Roundabout), American Airlines Theatre (Roundabout) and the Vivian Beaumont (Lincoln Center) are all owned and operated by "not-for-profit" companies and they are all Broadway theatres."

I was going to say! What a ludicrous reason to not be considered a Broadway show, just because you are a not-for-profit. And by the way, not-for-profit doesn't mean they don't make a profit, it means that profit is not the reason for doing what they do. I'm sure Roundabput made a nice profit from Cabaret.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:11pm

Well, "profit" implies that after costs were repaid that somebody (in the "for profit" realm," investors) gets a nice chunk of change to put in their pocket and take home. With not-for-profits, anything that's taken in above and beyond costs goes right back into the theatre kitty and is used to pay for future productions (plus salaries and other operating costs of the theatre).

Take the case of The Public Theatre and A CHORUS LINE. Prior to ACL, the Public (like most not-for-profits) was struggling a bit and had no endowment or reserve fund and really was reliant on donors and subscriber income to survive. After ACL's 15 year Broadway run (plus the countless road companies), the Public's endowment stood at more than $20 million and income from that show financed dozens and dozens of other productions, turning The Public into one of the more financially healthy theatre companies in the country and allowed it to fulfill its mission to support and nurture new work and new voices without any pressure of having to come up with Broadway-viable "hits" in order for the theatre to survive.

[FeelingElectric]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:20pm

I just realized I made a mistake.She did not say those were the requirements to be a Broadway theatre.Rather those were the requirements of a theatre so that a show playing in it could be nominated for a Tony.Obiously, she must have been wrong about the for-profit status.The Light In The Piazza was nominated and won Tonys and is at the Vivian Beaumont which as someone mentioned is not-for-profit.

[Urban]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:30pm

Thank you Margo. Everytime I read something you right I know I am getting a wonderful history lesson.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:33pm

Okay, yeah that's what i was wondering. I mean, many people with "money" could just build a theater on Broadway or around Broadway, just wondering if they would be considered Broadway theaters. Are there any theaters on Broadway that aren't considered Broadway houses? Like theaters that are too small or do they usually keep those off-broadway, since there's nobody to really regulate what gets built, i'm surprised there aren't. How much would you say it costs to build a broadway size theater?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:47pm

There are hundreds of theatres in New York, but only 39 have been designated "Broadway" houses by the League. And there are DOZENS of Off- and Off-Off-Theatres between 41st and 66th Streets (the Broadway district) -- here's a partial listing http://www.nytheatre.com/nytheatre/bwaythea.htm .

Building a Broadway-sized theatre from scratch would cost tens of millions of dollars. The renovation of The Biltmore Theatre by the Manhattan Theatre Club cost some $20 million and Disney's renovation of the New Amsterdam was even more than that (both were historic Broadway houses that had fallen into disrepair and had been closed for many many years).

Even if some wealthy persons could afford to build a new theatre, they still would have to be approved by the League to be considered "Broadway" and a Tony-eligible house. They would also have to negotiate and sign contracts with all of the major unions -- Stagehands (Local One), Musician (Local 802), Equity etc. In short, it wouldn't be easy and would probably cost what? $40+ million?

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 01:47 PM

[FeelingElectric]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:52pm

I was told on the tour that the Biltmore was bought from the city of New York by the MTC for $1 and cost $32,000,000 to renovate.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:53pm

Oh okay. Interesting, I guess that's not that bad, considering Tom Cruise gets paid that for doing one movie.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:53pm

A little more, actually...the New Amsterdam restoration was $34 million, and the Biltmore was $35 million. (Just thought about how nice it is that both theatres also were restored with their original names intact).

[FeelingElectric]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 1:59pm

I also learned on the tour that there is a facade of a theatre(An archway or an entrance I think)of which the rest was demolished.I heard that someone was concidering building a new theatre on this site using this element(possibly Disney).I wish I could remember the name or the site but it escapes me.Does anyone else know about this.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 9/28/05 at 2:01pm

That's Henry Miller's Theatre on West 43rd Street (where Cabaret started and where Urinetown played). The theatre was knocked down but the facade is still standing (as it was landmarked). A new Bank of America building is going up next to it, and a new 950-seat theatre is being built behind the facade, using some elements from the original Henry Miller's. It's slated to open in 2008.

I believe it will be owned and operated by the Durst Organization.

Updated On: 9/28/05 at 02:01 PM