Can AVENUE Q beat WICKED? Your thoughts...- Page 2

[BroadwayDiva]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:10pm

I think Avenue Q deserves best book- I've never been to a show besides AQ that made me laugh every time someone said a line. Jeff Whitty SO deserves this. If Wicked wins, there's a problem.


I want Stephen Schwatz to win Best Score. He deserves a Tony.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:17pm

If we're talking about who should win, it's Ave, Q who will win, is Wicked. Not right at all but let's not forget that the Tonys are nothing more than a popularity contest, at best. Who cares, anyone with half a brain knows which is the better show. I, personally think Wicked is CRAP. I'm sure that's a very unpopular statement but it's my opinion. I hated Millie too, so there you have it.

[Plum]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:26pm

The sad thing is, Avenue Q is popular, too. It just does it in a tiny theater with no pyrotechnics, Oz connection, or squealing teeny-bopper fans. I don't think that show or Wicked will turn out to be classics, but of the two, Avenue Q is far better. If enough voters think that Wicked has lots of votes and go for Avenue Q instead, it might pull an upset. But otherwise, I doubt it. Sad.

[JaiMonster]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:48pm

Hey all, it looks like I ll be the one to go out on the limb and say it. Wicked is a MESS of a show and does not deserve to win best musical. (oooh there I said it!) I did enjoy Wicked. And I think there are moments in the show that are brilliant (i.e. defying gravity, Idina and Kristin’s performances) but these moments are exactly that, moments. Wicked has a weak book, anti-climatic music, awful choreography w/ a tragic ensemble, poor staging, ridiculous costumes and a giant, cool, unexplained set. The show doesn’t know what it wants to be nor does it ever come together.
Avenue Q has great music, a tight book, is directed wonderfully, its hysterical and emotional, its enjoyable and thought provoking (w/out a ridiculous precontrived Broadway ending).Not to mention the Q has the best ensemble work with stand out perormances by almost everyone (Tartaglia, D'Abruzzio, Lyon, Harda, and Belcon). Avenue Q is brilliant from the moment the show begins through intermission right to the end. Its simplistic style and giant heart is more magical then Wicked attempts to be. Avenue Q is hands down the best new musical of this season and we can only hope the Tony voters see past all the GREEN that Oz will bring them and vote Q.

Jai

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:49pm

Winnie Holzman's book, although funny at some parts with references to The Wizard of Oz, is VERY overwritten in some parts, and underwritten in others. Some characters change their minds for no reason, and some of the lines don't make sense. Jeff Whitty's book is hilarious and very touching at some parts. He should win Best Book, and Best Score should also go to Marx & Lopez; although Stephen Schwartz will probably get it. He does deserve to get one, even though it will be for the wrong show.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 4:57pm

I think Wicked is a great show, and I really do love them both, but they're so different, so I think it's difficult to say. As good a show as Wicked is, I'd really like to see Avenue Q give Wicked a run for its money. Avenue Q is just so fresh and clever. I think it could potentially win best book, but other than that I think Wicked has a lot of the awards for which it was nominated in the bag, especially best musical. It seems pretty clear that Tony voters are into big, flashy shows like Wicked. I'm not sure whether that's necessarily good or bad, but I doubt that Q will win for best musical. As for the acting awards, Stephanie and J Tags are incredibly talented, but I don't think either of them has a chance. Avenue Q has come so far, though. It really is the little show that could. I'm really happy for it and all of its nominations!

[wendy72]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:06pm

I am reading all the arguments in favor of Avenue Q over Wicked, and I think this says it all: "It just does it in a tiny theater with no pyrotechnics, Oz connection, or squealing teeny-bopper fans."
What Avenue Q has going for it is sincerity, honesty and simplicity. Just when you think the show is going to be a little sentimental, it throws you a curveball. It keeps you laughing while keeping you off base. It also touches your heart when you least expect it.
I'm not saying Wicked doesn't have those things, because it does. Avenue Q does it more effectively. The big argument is that Wicked will tour better, and I'm beginning to think that is not compelling enough to designate it the "best" of 2004. Think about it--Avenue Q has great word of mouth and will do well in its tour, with sets and possibly a cast that can match the Broadway original. I don't see how Wicked's will be able to do that. But as Al Dente says, awards are not given for merit, but often for commerce.

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:26pm

Ok, I've tried to stay quiet as long as I could, but now I'm breaking out! I'm getting very sick of this Wicked bashing. Maybe this thread isn't too too bad, but I have just in general. I understand that many of you believe that Wicked is a teeny-bopper show and it has such a sucky ending, and Idina and Kristin are getting to much credit, and Stephen is a crappy songwriter, etc etc. Ok, that's fine. But when you keep repeating it, and repeating, and repeating it, and repeating it, and repeating, it gets quite annoying as you can see. I think we all know where everyone stands on Wicked. Let's just please try to kept the bashing to a small amount, because yes there are some Wicked fans here, and, no, we are not all teeny-boppers. With that being said, I do think that Avenue Q deserves to win best book. See, I'm not totally Wicked-fied.

And I really don't mean to sound bitchy. And if I do, I apoligize . I just finsihed the MCAS (Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System) and I'm annoyed and tired from it. Thanks for listening.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:26pm

Avenue Q has more "squealing teeny-bopper fans" than you guys may think. One night when I went to the stagedoor there were about 15 girls from a CA high school waiting for Mr. Tartaglia & co. But I do agree with you Wendy. Wicked's the commercial hit; Avenue Q is the cult hit.
[Sigh] The supense is killing me!

[wendy72]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:31pm

Chenofan, I liked Wicked, liked the cast, esp. Idina and Carole Shelley. Kristin had that "Nathan Lane" thing going on. It works for Nathan, I guess I don't know Kristin's work well enough to applaud her ad-libbing, look at me-aren't I adorable--schtick. I did like the show..really!

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:36pm

lol, don't worry wendy I wasn't talking to you. I didn't even read far enough down to see your post. And I also adored Avenue Q. I just wish they weren't both in this years Tonys. Couldn't Wicked have waited a year? lol

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:39pm

I like Wicked too Chenofan! I'm just rooting for the underdog here

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 5:39pm

WICKED's also great so I'm not upset that it might win best musical,and im not upset that AVENUE Q will win best score and book (althoguh it would be nice if CAROLINE won best score)

[Benzy92]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 6:12pm

has it ever happened where three different shows take book, music, and musical.

I have a weird feeling Wicked will win musical, avenue q score, and caroline or change book.. i would love to see an upset where Avenue Q beats wicked!

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 6:24pm

i had sooooo much fun when i saw wicked, that i could easily forget its flaws. the performances were terrific, and some of the music was too. but thats just the thing, q is not as flawed as wicked, though it is also not as flashy. i just hope they get some recognition, they are far too good of a show to just sit there on tony night and not win ANYTHING

[bythesword84]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 7:10pm

I know that I never was saying that Wicked was bad...I did enjoy it. I liked it, I just liked Avenue Q better. And yes, Q does have a teeny bopper fan base its just not as large as Wicked's is. A lot of the teens that I know who claim they "LOVE" Wicked, have never actually seen it but just have the CD. It's more out there for people than Q is and it has the leg up of that people already know who the characters are...I just like Q better.

[Bohoboy]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 8:55pm

Is the issue a touring issue? Wicked will tour better. Wicked already plays a 2000 seat theatre, which is around the average seating capacity of most touring houses. Avenue Q plays to a 799 seat house, and fills it wonderfully, It's doubtful it would come across as effectively in a larger house.

That being said, touring bookers only account for 15% of the Tony vote, a far fewer amount than most people think. Could they swing the vote in favor of Wicked? Sure. But you also have to think that just a few months ago, Tony Kushner had a very high profile, critically acclaimed adaptation of Angels in America air on HBO, voters might award him the book Tony as a tie-in to his Golden Globe win... lest we forget that Mary J. Blige, a woman who wrote the line, "No more drama in my life" and who has no connection to Broadway or live theatre, as far as I know, is going to be featured on the Tony telecast in an attempt to get attract more viewers. That said, Avenue Q could concievably take the Tony for best book.

As far as original score, I'm reminded of a very similar situation we had a few seasons back; like now Tony voters were presented with a show from a high profile composer (Mel Brooks) who openly courted the vote for Score, versus a younger composer (David Yazbek) with an original score with a lot of heart. And talk about economics. Although it continues to struggle when Lane and Broderick are not in the show, The Producers is still open. The Full Monty shuttered more than a year ago. Think about the tourists that come here, most of them are not completely up to date with all of the new shows. Having moved here from the Mid-west, I know how difficult it is to keep up with all of the theatre news unless you live here, or you spend all of your time on Broadwayworld, playbill, New York Times, etc. Even still, the average non-NYer is apt to miss a show here or there. When was the last time you saw a tourist at an Off-off Broadway show (not counting a mother of a cast member)? Many tourists gauge the quality of a production based upon how many Tony awards it has won.

Which leads us to the award for Best Musical. Winning the Tony award is extremely important to the commercial life of a new musical. Not only does it increase it's visibility, it becomes the only show many people see. Of the shows that have won the Best Musical Tony in the past 6 years, 4 are still open. Of the 18 shows that lost the Tony award for best musical in the same 6 years, only 2 are still open. I would hope that Avenue Q could win this award, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was something new that was written for my generation (mid-20's) and it's rare that we get such a show. I'd like to see it run for a while.

I could go on, but I'm not sure anyone got this far.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 9:30pm

I hate to bring these thoughts to the surface, as I am a devoted "Q-tip"...but I think it is very real possibility that AVENUE Q will walk away from the Tonys empty-handed and that the lumbering WICKED will sweep the awards. I ultimately think that AVENUE Q will be judged "too small" and "too special" in its appeal compared to the all-out whiz-bang phenomenon that is WICKED. Like it or not, WICKED has a very powerful appeal to many young people, and on the Fan Fiction site, WICKED ficton now outnumbers RENT fiction. What does that tell you?! As for me, I fell in love with the AVENUE Q ensemble and even though 'sequel' shows almost never work, I'd love to hear about the further adventures of Kate, Princeton, Rod, Nicky and Trekkie (among others).
I think Tony voters will want to reward a show that is a "family friendly" spectacle, and that CAROLINE might siphon off a few 'artier' votes that would have otherwise gone to AVENUE Q.

[Plum]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 9:48pm

One thing people never talk about when they discuss the touring potential of the two shows is that Wicked might be too big to tour, at least in its current form. The set must be enormous and extremely hard to transport. If they downscale it, they get rid of one of the few spectacular elements of the show. And if they tour without Chenowetha and Menzel (which they will) they lose another good quality. What's left?

Feel free to yell at me if this shows my complete ignorance of the mechanics of touring. :)

Posted: 5/18/04 at 10:16pm

I don't think they'll lose good quality by not having Cheno or Idina. Eden has already proved that.

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 10:19pm

"No way!! WICKED ROCKS!"

How does one argue with such a witty response?

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 10:32pm

If they can travel Les Miz, then believe me, they can travel Wicked.
Boho, I did read your whole post

[Bohoboy]

Posted: 5/18/04 at 10:47pm

broadwaystar2b, you're certainly much more patient than my boyfriend.... thanks :)

[USActorSinger]

Posted: 5/19/04 at 11:55am

What about Caroline, or Change?? It was nominated for just as many tonys as aveQ and beat it at the drama desks.

[kitkatgirl54]

Posted: 5/19/04 at 12:09pm

personally, caroline or change was my favorite thing i saw this season. however, i don't think it will win much at the tonys. both wicked and avenue q were much stronger shows overall. what SHOULD win? avenue q, hands down. but wicked is what will. i do hope C or C goes away with something, though.