Can AVENUE Q beat WICKED? Your thoughts...- Page 4

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:01pm

It's interesting to read people's comments about Idina's acting abilities. I have seen two different women portray Elphaba and they both approached it very differently.
The way I see Idina play the part is as a cold, cynical, "Daria-type" girl who hides her emotions inside and struggles with them until Defying Gravity when she finally lets herself free.
Eden Espinosa played the part very different. Eden's Elphie was a bookish, geeky girl who wanted desperately to be accepted but during Defying Gravity realizes that she doesn't need to be.
I don't think one approach was nessasarily better than the other, but they did provide a sort of kalidescope of how the part could be played and yet both reached the same end.
For me, the problem with Wicked's book is that after Defying Gravity, Elphaba's character doesn't really develope. Act One was her metamorphosis and Act Two is Glinda's. And it really should be Elphaba's story throughout. I truly love Wicked very much, but if I had any critiques on the show, I feel almost like it could have gone through a tad more tweeking on 1.)The script 2.)The ensemble numbers.
"Now it's up to you..."

[HunterFosterIsMyGod]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:04pm

that was awesome!

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:24pm

wicked was fun, but i conceed its problems.

avenue q seems so well constructed and smart, and i gathered than from the cast recording alone- im going to see it on the 12th

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:30pm

Do I think "Avenue Q" has a shot as beating "Wicked"? No. Do I think it should? Absolutely. "Wicked"'s score stays at one continuous level through the entire show. Honestly, every song sounds the same to me. I'm going to be honest and admit that I haven't seen the show in person (hey, give me a break, I live in Colorado!) but I did read the book and I own the CD, and from what I've heard on the soundtrack the show bears little resemblance to the book. For example, Glinda and Fiyero never date in the book, yet their romance is a pretty big part of the show. The musical's Emerald City is a place of wonder and delight but the book paints it as a grim, almost slummy place. Not to mention that Elphaba doesn't even attempt to fly until the Vinkus section of the book. There are many more discrepancies but if I listed them all this post would go on for ages. That's my two cents.

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:39pm

ive also read the book, and while i dont expect the show to not stray from its original material at all, it was riddiculous how easy they made it for everyone. i dont care what people say about that thread, i agree with whoever suggested that sondheim could have made the musicalization of wicked brilliant.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:42pm

Ooh...a Sondheim version would have been GENIUS!! And I agree with you, nystateomind04, I don't expect a particular story to go from book to stage completely unchanged, but when it's changed that much, it annoys me.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:43pm

I've been saying that since I first heard they were making it into a musical - Sondheim seemed (to me) the only choice for a writer of this kind of material. He could have done so much with this book. It is absolutely the kind of thing he does best. I think (and I know I make lots of enemies saying this, but I'm entitled to my opinion!) that Stephen schwartz writes some cute pop-ish stuff, but he doesn't have the cojones to write what a score like this needs. I've never been a fan of his shows, but, taken out of context, some of his songs are fun and likeable. Sondheim has no equal.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:45pm

For some reason, though, I don't think Sondheim would be interested in doing it. I don't know the man...but I just feel that he would have given a pass.

Now Jason Robert Brown's WICKED would have been something.

[PJ]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:17pm

Most of the nominations that Ave. Q receieved are their awards. Meaning they don't have a chance at a lot of them, but the nomination alone stands for something. Does that make sense?

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:18pm

I totally agree with you, redhotinnyc2. Stephen Schwartz writes okay stuff, but I don't believe his work is of the caliber that is required to make a story like "Wicked" truly sparkle.
And robbiej...oh man, Jason Robert Brown would have done a beautiful "Wicked" too. Beautiful.

[CallbackKing]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:43pm

I would argue that Avenue Q has a solid shot at 3 of the categories: book, score, musical. Score and book are obviously firmer, but don't count of the musical category.

As my grandpa used to say, ya never know.

[HunterFosterIsMyGod]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 9:14pm

great quote there! lol

[G(a)linda303]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:17pm

Okay dude you just SUCK. First off, if you had read the book that Wicked was based off of, you would understand the set perfectly. The big clock in the background and the dragon overhead is, of course, the Time Dragon Clock. And Wicked is way better than some piece of crap musical that makes no sense. Wicked will win everything and I'll laugh in your face when it does.

[Corine2]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:29pm

I love Avenue Q, And Caroline and I thought Wicked was fun.
It is a tough race this year. But if I could vote it would be a tie between Avenue Q and Caroline or Change.
All the shows are wonderful and they are all winners in my opinion.

[Plum]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:31pm

All right, no more sugar for G(a)linda.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:33pm

G(a)linda that was a bit harsh, but do understand where you're coming from. I've read the book so I understand the set perfectly but a lot of people (from fans to reviewers) don't get it because the musical only makes two or three subtle references to the Time Dragon. Folks I can't urge ya'll enuf to read the book. Not only does it provide great insight to the story of Wicked but it's a masterful piece of work on its own as well.

[broadway86]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:34pm

I honestly cannot wait to see WICKED in a couple of weeks. So much contraversy over the book and score, etc! Personally, judging from the CD. I think that the music is very well-written and easily memorable.

WICKED is, momentarily, the IT show of my high school. Everyone's reading the novel and buying the CD.

[Corine2]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:37pm

Schwartz wrote Pippin which was the first show to get me hooked on theatre.
I love all the shows and all the musical directors.
Oy!

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 2:47pm

The Clock of the Time Dragon only makes sense to people who read the book. It has nothing to do with ANYTHING else that is happening on stage - that is one of the major problems with this show - it just doesn't know what it wants to be. And the changes to the book are too jolting - it tries to be to commercial and appeal to the masses (which I guess it does, seeing how popular it has become) but it did nothing for me other than to introduce me to Idina's wonderful voice, give me a chance to see Kristin Chenoweth do the kind of thing she does best, and thats about it. I just didn't like it, and I MIGHT have liked it if I hadn't read the book first and been expecting something completely different.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:08pm

Not only should G(a)linda lay off the sugar, she should get an enema.

To say that you had to read the book to understand the Time Dragon clock is ridiculous. Truly. Anytime someone actually has to read the source material to understand something in the play then there's a problem (see LES MIZ...sure reading the source material would enrichen the experience...but the show still makes perfect sense, even if you hadn't read the book). And if you read the book and understand what the Time Dragon actually represents, then how can you say it translates onto the stage?? The time dragon represents hedonistic, pagan impulses and is where Elphaba is conceived (or is it born? or is it both...I forget) Where oh where in the show is that ever even hinted at?

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:16pm

robbie - did you just contradict yourself or did I? I said that the dragon makes no sense unless you've read the book - if I were sitting there in the audience and had not read the book, all night long I'd be wondering what the f**K the dragon's presence indicated...it is never mentioned in the show and just hangs there rather un-ominously above the set - meaning nothing. I just don't understand the design of the show in general and wish it had followed the book a lot more closely.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:17pm

Yes.
Other than looking cool, the time dragon is just part of the proscenium. I don't remember it being referenced. Maybe one of the Worldwide Wickeds and Wickettes can prove wrong.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:20pm

I think Glinda mentions at the beginning something about the Time Dragon Clock told the exact time when the Wicked Witch died. And every now and then they'd say something like "wait just a tick tock". Other than that, no reference.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:23pm

I don't think either of us contradicted ourselves, did we?

If I wasn't clear, I'm fully in your corner.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 5/26/04 at 3:35pm

ok Robbie - I think I misread you or something...its been a LONG day...OY.....and I still have rehearsal after work tonight - Crikey!