Can you learn to write a play?
#3
Posted: 9/1/12 at 12:28am
I'm of the opinion that you can learn pretty much anything. Everything, even art, has a logical and/or scientific basis to it. You can learn psychology and dialogue and play structure, and eventually you can learn to write a play. Will it take you longer than someone with natural talent? Yeah, but I think you can learn if you put the proper amount of work into it.
#4
Posted: 9/1/12 at 12:45am
Most of the colleges in NYC have continuing education programs where you can take night (and sometimes day) classes in playwriting. They are short-term classes, relatively inexpensive and are usually taught by experienced writers.
#5
Posted: 9/1/12 at 7:04am
Writing is a craft -- just like painting, sculpture and acting. You need to learn AND integrate that with talent.
Anyone can write a novel. However, not everyone can write a good novel.
Classes are a great start. And writing. And writing. And writing. And more classes. And writing.
Anyone can write a novel. However, not everyone can write a good novel.
Classes are a great start. And writing. And writing. And writing. And more classes. And writing.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#6
Posted: 9/1/12 at 11:02am
What Dramamama said. No amount of learning will help some, and mastering playwrighting craft doesn't necessarily mean your work will be any good. Conversely, some people can write brilliantly for the theater without formal education.
Some great playwrights find themselves not writing a particular play well, often because they have either apparently forgotten fundamentals of playwriting or are flouting them to poor effect. As with anything else, "going rogue" in composing a play might prove audacious and yield excellent results. But it often fails. The failures perfectly illustrate how important a sense of craft and knowledge of the fundamentals are.
In another sense, writing itself is always an on-the-job lesson. Writing any play involves learning to write IT and testing what techniques are and are not suited to IT. Mostly, writing is learning what works and what doesn't on one's particular project and constantly rewriting in accordance with these realizations. Of course there are exceptions. Perhaps some playwrights can simply sit down at their desk and spontaneously produce at the top of their game so that revision is unnecessary.
As Kinsey said, in another context, "Everyone's different."
Some great playwrights find themselves not writing a particular play well, often because they have either apparently forgotten fundamentals of playwriting or are flouting them to poor effect. As with anything else, "going rogue" in composing a play might prove audacious and yield excellent results. But it often fails. The failures perfectly illustrate how important a sense of craft and knowledge of the fundamentals are.
In another sense, writing itself is always an on-the-job lesson. Writing any play involves learning to write IT and testing what techniques are and are not suited to IT. Mostly, writing is learning what works and what doesn't on one's particular project and constantly rewriting in accordance with these realizations. Of course there are exceptions. Perhaps some playwrights can simply sit down at their desk and spontaneously produce at the top of their game so that revision is unnecessary.
As Kinsey said, in another context, "Everyone's different."
#7
Posted: 9/2/12 at 5:29am
Also you have to have PASSION for it to where it is a labor of love because the time, effort, thought, energy, patience, and commitment needed is astronomical and beyond a sane person's means.
IMO the talent of good prose can be taught, but that talent of good storytelling(or genially having that certain vast genius imagination to create something amazing from nothing but an idea) cannot be taught, you either have it or you don't, it's something that comes out of nowhere and acts as second nature, it's something a person has always been doing since early childhood and cannot stop doing because it is their whole world, it is their mad 24/7 obsession, it is all they live for, to where they craft their creation for only themselves to hell with mass opinion. (It's no coincidence that the majority of great artists, writers, poets, and composers were quite a bit on the nutty side)
There's the Salieri and there's the Amadeus, a Salieri cannot become an Amadeus, especially when their need to create is based solely upon the yearning for fame, riches, and acclaim.
IMO the talent of good prose can be taught, but that talent of good storytelling(or genially having that certain vast genius imagination to create something amazing from nothing but an idea) cannot be taught, you either have it or you don't, it's something that comes out of nowhere and acts as second nature, it's something a person has always been doing since early childhood and cannot stop doing because it is their whole world, it is their mad 24/7 obsession, it is all they live for, to where they craft their creation for only themselves to hell with mass opinion. (It's no coincidence that the majority of great artists, writers, poets, and composers were quite a bit on the nutty side)
There's the Salieri and there's the Amadeus, a Salieri cannot become an Amadeus, especially when their need to create is based solely upon the yearning for fame, riches, and acclaim.
Updated On: 9/2/12 at 05:29 AM
#8
Posted: 9/2/12 at 10:04am
Lastly: WANTING to write isn't enough. You need to NEED to write.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#9
Posted: 9/3/12 at 2:51pm
I am a playwright who's been fortunate enough to receive several productions over the years. While I think you can definitely learn to be a better writer through classes where mechanics are taught and some structure, the ability to write a play, or story you have to have a certain amount of natural talent, I think.
I will also agree with the other posters as well. For me writing is not so much a talent or a desire as it is an affliction. When my brain is ready to get to work, I have little to say in the matter. Just like the ability to sit up and write for several days without very much sleep comes from this compulsion. For me it can be uncomfortable until I'm done.
I will also agree with the other posters as well. For me writing is not so much a talent or a desire as it is an affliction. When my brain is ready to get to work, I have little to say in the matter. Just like the ability to sit up and write for several days without very much sleep comes from this compulsion. For me it can be uncomfortable until I'm done.
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
Updated On: 9/3/12 at 02:51 PM
#10
Posted: 9/3/12 at 2:56pm
You can learn to write a play, but you can't learn to write a good play.
#11
Posted: 9/3/12 at 2:57pm
There we go! Summed up perfectly!
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
#12
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:00pm
If you have a natural talent for writing, you can definitely benefit from training. How to construct a play etc, how to build up to a climax at the interval and how to bring the play to a close; tying up all the loose ends etc. Also how not to stick something in there that doesn't further the storyline. How not to refer to something then not mention it later on. Tremendous benefit going to writing courses. IMO
All problems are man made and so, can be man solved.
#13
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:11pm
And the rewriting process can be just as agonizing as writing the first draft.
I had a young person submit a play to the theatre company I used to manage. Our policy was to provide playwright with feedback. We did it for this person and his response was "I'm just one of those people who does everything perfect the first time, so I don't need to rewrite." So be it, but a play that was not the greatest in the form we saw, seemed like something that had definite potential, but he couldn't see that.
I had a young person submit a play to the theatre company I used to manage. Our policy was to provide playwright with feedback. We did it for this person and his response was "I'm just one of those people who does everything perfect the first time, so I don't need to rewrite." So be it, but a play that was not the greatest in the form we saw, seemed like something that had definite potential, but he couldn't see that.
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
#14
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:23pm
You can learn to write a play, but you can't learn to write a good play.
^This.
It's the same with all writing. There are some very accomplished writers out there, in terms of academics, but they're not successful because you can't be taught to write engrossing material that engages a reader.
^This.
It's the same with all writing. There are some very accomplished writers out there, in terms of academics, but they're not successful because you can't be taught to write engrossing material that engages a reader.
#15
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:25pm
I find in writing dialogue that you really have to have your pulse around the characters you are developing. Nearly to the point of feeling the strong emotions you're putting down on paper for them to feel.
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
#16
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:41pm
I think everyone is focusing on the wrong thing here. Yes, writing and all the technical skill it requires is paramount to a successful play.
But what's more important is having something to say. If a playwright has something of value to share then the actual "writing" can be learned (or at the very least well edited).
But what's more important is having something to say. If a playwright has something of value to share then the actual "writing" can be learned (or at the very least well edited).
....but the world goes 'round
#17
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:46pm
I like dramamama's comments above.
I don't, however, think that 'anyone' can write a play or a novel or a screenplay. Having attended NYU's film school I observed that technique and general rules can be taught -- imagination, the heart of storytelling, cannot.
I don't, however, think that 'anyone' can write a play or a novel or a screenplay. Having attended NYU's film school I observed that technique and general rules can be taught -- imagination, the heart of storytelling, cannot.
#18
Posted: 9/3/12 at 3:54pm
@ tazber/idiot....so true
All problems are man made and so, can be man solved.
Updated On: 9/3/12 at 03:54 PM
#19
I think many (not everyone!) can learn to write plays.
But the skill that's more difficult to learn is: how do you write something fresh, engaging and satisfying?
With a core plot that hasn't been used by 10 other people. (disfunctional family anyone? Quirky/dangerous interloper anyone?)
There are basic rules to playwrighting. There are no rules to startling ingenuity.
Posted: 9/3/12 at 5:59pm
I think many (not everyone!) can learn to write plays.
But the skill that's more difficult to learn is: how do you write something fresh, engaging and satisfying?
With a core plot that hasn't been used by 10 other people. (disfunctional family anyone? Quirky/dangerous interloper anyone?)
There are basic rules to playwrighting. There are no rules to startling ingenuity.
#20
Posted: 9/3/12 at 6:15pm
I want to disagree with tazbar, but only in part. I believe every human being on the planet has something to say. Whether he or she can access that "something", however, is a very different matter. Whether he or she can get it down on paper in a useful form is something else again.
I'm glad Fine Life mentioned rewriting. I've known and taught too many playwrights who produce brilliant but fatally flawed first drafts only to discover they can't change a word once they have vomited out that first draft. We should all keep in mind that Tennessee Williams was still re-writing STREETCAR when he died; unnecessarily, IMO, but the point is he was willing to rethink even his greatest masterpiece.
In fact, if only in general, you're probably better off with a playwright who produces a promising first draft and then rewrites it 20 times than with a playwright who produces a brilliant first draft but can't bear to change a word.
Finally, on the subject of classes. A lot of playwrights are contemptuous of playwriting classes and with good reason: there are plenty of stupid teachers and stupid classes. But there used to be literally thousands of theaters (professional and amateur) in the U.S. where a young playwright could see his new work produced, and use live actors and audiences to hone his craft. The number of such theaters is probably counted in the "dozens" nowadays. Classes and playwriting programs at colleges help to fill that gap, however imperfectly.
I'm glad Fine Life mentioned rewriting. I've known and taught too many playwrights who produce brilliant but fatally flawed first drafts only to discover they can't change a word once they have vomited out that first draft. We should all keep in mind that Tennessee Williams was still re-writing STREETCAR when he died; unnecessarily, IMO, but the point is he was willing to rethink even his greatest masterpiece.
In fact, if only in general, you're probably better off with a playwright who produces a promising first draft and then rewrites it 20 times than with a playwright who produces a brilliant first draft but can't bear to change a word.
Finally, on the subject of classes. A lot of playwrights are contemptuous of playwriting classes and with good reason: there are plenty of stupid teachers and stupid classes. But there used to be literally thousands of theaters (professional and amateur) in the U.S. where a young playwright could see his new work produced, and use live actors and audiences to hone his craft. The number of such theaters is probably counted in the "dozens" nowadays. Classes and playwriting programs at colleges help to fill that gap, however imperfectly.
#21
Posted: 9/3/12 at 8:25pm
For me, the euphoria of having just finished writing something often results in immediately saying something like, "This is so perfect, I'll never write it any better." The opportunity to make my pieces better usually presents itself the first time I get copies printed and start looking over the work on paper with a pen. Just that step leads me to having new and better ideas.
I have a blast when I'm doing rewrites. It's much more fun than writing the first draft.
I always say "Go for it! to people who say "I wonder if I could write a play, or a screenplay" The more you write, the better you will become at it. And you'll never know if you don't try.
I have a blast when I'm doing rewrites. It's much more fun than writing the first draft.
I always say "Go for it! to people who say "I wonder if I could write a play, or a screenplay" The more you write, the better you will become at it. And you'll never know if you don't try.
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
Updated On: 9/3/12 at 08:25 PM
#22
Posted: 9/3/12 at 8:36pm
What a great way to be, Fine Life! How I envy you!
Myself, I have trouble turning off the "critic" long enough to give the "supplier" a chance to work. (I'm paraphrasing somebody with the distinction between critic and supplier, but I can't remember who.)
I love the rewriting. It's the blank page I abhor.
Myself, I have trouble turning off the "critic" long enough to give the "supplier" a chance to work. (I'm paraphrasing somebody with the distinction between critic and supplier, but I can't remember who.)
I love the rewriting. It's the blank page I abhor.
#23
Posted: 9/3/12 at 8:39pm
Precisely. Because when it rewrites the tough part is done. You don't have to worry about not being able to write, because you already have. But feeling like you can't rewrite can still be a crappy feeling.
If you don't mind taking it as it turns out, it's a fine, fine LIFE!
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