Checking in with West Side Story...- Page 2

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 12:44pm

I'm kind of curious to hear from people who saw all 5 nominees, including Martha Plimpton, to hear how people think she measured up compared to the other nominees.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 12:52pm

Well Brantley and Isherwood saw all 5 nominees, and we know where they stand. And I know AdamGreer saw all 5 (including Martha) and believes Karen definitely deserves it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 1:51pm

One more time for those trained dancers in this thread who haven't seen this, here, from a "trained dancer," the dumbing-down of Anita's choreography. She is a talented singer and actress, and I sincerely hope she wins a Tony for her NEXT performance, not for this one, in which she is substandard.

===

First, Anita and Bernado's variation in the dance at the gym is way simplified: Karen basically shimmies and he dips her. She gives a small kick over his head while he kneels, but this is supposed to be a huge fan kick, followed by a flick into a double partner-turn to the floor with a partnered layout at the end, featuring HER, not Bernardo. They don't do any of that.

Then in America, Anita's first variation was previously solo, but Karen is immediately joined by two girls. This particular variation was always supposed to be Anita's technical specialty, but it is severely toned down for Karen.

Not one single ounce of the ballet/theater synthesis Robbins was so adept at remains.

Some of the more charming, quirky sections that are fast enough to mask her technical shortcomings are partially intact, but only in bits and pieces.

Finally, the most iconic part of the dance--the huge jumps at the end that mirror the huge crescendo in music--are replaced by single turns and are completely anticlimactic.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 1:57pm

As someone who saw all five nominees, I would vote for Plimpton. She lit up the stage every time she entered in PAL JOEY and made a mediocre production soar whenever she opened her mouth. The fact that she's had such consistently good work in a variety of mediums over the last few years is something I think many of the voters may take into consideration.

Olivo is a terrific talent who gets to utilize a lot of her potential for the first time in WEST SIDE STORY. That being said, she just didn't do it for me as Anita. I loved her voice and she certainly has presence to spare, but she didn't have any of the fire or passion that's so vital to the character, most of which is usually conveyed by dance (an ability we all know Olivo lacks in.) Many of her choices just left me cold. To be honest, if everything around her wasn't so bland, I doubt she'd be deemed as big a standout as she is.

I don't agree with those who say Gwynne's work doesn't justify the praise she's been getting, but her role is underwritten compared to the other women in the category. Because of the universal love for BILLY ELLIOT, though, I could see her pulling off a victory quite easily.

Shelley is a respected veteran whose status is being honored by a nomination as much as her work. Damiano is a terrific newcomer who we'll surely see more of in the future.

Updated On: 5/24/09 at 01:57 PM

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 1:57pm

at least she knows she isn't a dancer... she even refers to herself has a mover as opposed to a dancer.

[dg22894]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 1:58pm

I think Martha Plimpton is the the one who is least likely to win it. I think it is really between Jennifer and Karen but it really depends

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 2:02pm

I don't understand why people get upset when we ask for a lead in a MUSICAL to dance the choreography or sing on pitch. In musical theatre, acting is only part of the performance. Never all of it. There is the singing aspect and the dancing aspect, which for some reason people are constantly forgetting about this season. It's not asking for much to want a person in a dancing show to do the dancing, and for someone in a sung-through show to sing well. I'm not dismissing the acting, because that is definitely just as important. But in a musical, it can't be the only thing you lean on.

[beltingbaritone]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 2:11pm

I agree with you 100%, wickedfan. For me though, I never saw Olivio's dancing as mediocre. Maybe the two times I saw her she was having a really good show. Maybe it's because it was my first West Side Story experience live. Or maybe the whole thing is being blown out of proportion. *shrugs* Who knows?

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 2:16pm

Olivo is good because everything around her sucks: the direction, the leads, the sets, etc. She's not bad, but she didn't really do anything for me. I think someone else should win the Tony.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 3:36pm

While Olivo is fantastic in the first act, it's the second act that really makes her deserving of the award. Her "A Boy Like That" is unlike any other before. Instead of just yelling at Maria, Olivo desperately pleads with Maria, and it's heartbreaking.

Her "rape" scene is incredibly intense. And I cannot get her high-pitched squeals of terror out of my head.

Seeing her from the front row really made it very clear that she deserves the award.

[raker]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:15pm

The Spanish stops the show, and not in a good way. It adds nothing of dramatic interest or tension, and if you don't know the show it takes you out of the story. The best example of why the Spanish was ill-conceived is the Tonight Quintet. The Sharks have been speaking and singing exclusively in Spanish, but this song has several verses that must end in the word "Tonight!", including the Sharks' verse. They sing "...Spanish Spanish Spanish....tonight!"

Ya gotta have a gimmick, but not this one.

[beltingbaritone]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:31pm

I feel most people dislike the Spanish because they don't even give it a chance. Most people I've spoken with (but certainly not all, of course) decide that they think it's not going to work coming in and dismiss it, instead of putting the words aside and letting the emotion wash over them.

(However, I do think that's a bit difficult to do that when Anita sings "A Boy Like That" in Spanish and suddenly Maria sings "I Had a Love" in English).

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:32pm

Maybe it's because it was my first West Side Story experience live.

Yes. And that's what makes me so sad: None of you are seeing the true gorgeousness of the intricate quiltwork of acting, dance and music that Robbins and Bernstein conceived.

All because one minor talent wanted to diminish the contributions of his genius collaborators and pump up his own mediocre contribution once before he died.

The sin of it is that an entire generation will think this is ALL West Side Story is: lackluster dancing in the first act and melodramatic screaming in the second.

Updated On: 5/24/09 at 04:32 PM

[beltingbaritone]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:37pm

"The sin of it is that an entire generation will think this is ALL West Side Story is: lackluster dancing in the first act and melodramatic screaming in the second."

I loved it. It's a very special memory for me. If anything, it made me a fan of the show forever. So, not lackluster memories here. =)

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:45pm

The use of Spanish was a concept that worked in theory but not in execution.

I understand why Anita sings "A Boy Like That" in Spanish (she is turning her back on the language and the culture that she now feels disgusted by,) but in doing so, the contextual applications of the conceit do exactly the opposite of their intention.

The Spanish was supposed to give the audience a new perspective on the story and introduce the Sharks as more balanced players in the scheme the story. Unfortunately, what it ends up doing is isolating the audience to them even more.

For me, the idea will always be remembered as one that looked good on paper but not on stage.

[CyCoSpAz2]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:51pm

"I'm kind of curious to hear from people who saw all 5 nominees, including Martha Plimpton, to hear how people think she measured up compared to the other nominees."

I have seen all 5 and would give the award to Haydn or Karen, so I am really no help.

[raker]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 4:54pm

When the Sharks speak English they are like the Puerto Rican women in the story who are eager to assimilate into their new world. It underscores the bigotry of the Jets more so than when the Sharks speak only Spanish. In other words, the Sharks always were, if not the good guys, then the more sympathetic of the two gangs.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 5:00pm

I don't get this new backlash over Haydn Gwynne. Haydn is wonderful in BILLY ELLIOT, she is heart-breaking, commanding, and all-around thrilling in the show. I don't get the Bologna love, and most certainly can't even begin to comprehend the Greg Jbara love, but to say that the only reason Gwynne is getting claim is because of the BILLY ELLIOT love is not accurate. Now, Shelley's nomination is one I don't get, I don't think she deserved the nod nor do I think she deserves the win.
I think it's between Gwynne, Plimptom, and Olivo. Plimptom has a lot going for her, she is dearly beloved among theater folk, surprised everyone with her musical theater debut, and received across the board raves. Plus, as WannaBe mentioned, she has been nominated before. Olivo will win a Tony at some point, she's a brilliant actress and a superb singer, but she's not the most deserving, IMO. And it's pretty funny that many of the people that said Bernadette Peters shouldn't win the Tony for GYPSY because of her vocal issues, are the same ones criticizing those of us who don't think Olivo should win because of her dancing issues.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 6:10pm

Or, for that matter, ray, Alice Ripley in Next To Normal, who (despite what you think of her pitch) IS having major vocal issues.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 6:13pm

" And it's pretty funny that many of the people that said Bernadette Peters shouldn't win the Tony for GYPSY because of her vocal issues, are the same ones criticizing those of us who don't think Olivo should win because of her dancing issues."


That's not really true. PalJoey HATED Bernadette's Rose. Hated her with a passion. And he doesn't think Olivo should win because of her weak dancing.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 6:49pm

"Hate" is an emotion I save for more appropriate targets, like religious bigots...and people who talk at the movies or theater...and squid.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 7:00pm

Ljay, I'm not really sure how your comment relates to what I said. It seems to me that PJ doesn't like his musical theater girls to be lacking in any department and that's a logic I can follow.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 7:02pm

ZIP! Martha Plimpton should win for PAL JOEY.
Updated On: 5/24/09 at 07:02 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 7:03pm

You said the same people who criticized Bernadette's vocals are those who are criticizing the ones who don't think Olivo should win.

And I said that's not true of PJ. He strongly disliked Bernadette as Rose, and he strongly disagrees that Karen should win the Tony.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/24/09 at 8:00pm

Nothing is ever completely true or false about me.

I defy categorization.