Chenoweth addresses the 700 Club appearance and BWW debate about it- Page 4

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 11:59pm

Ok this thread has become about something else. If you have personal gripes could you private each other your arguments please.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 11:59pm

Jazzy--I have acknowledged your pov and respect it greatly. I'm repeating this seeing how I apparently come off as "all or nothing" "with us or against us" to certain people.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 12:03am

I'm sorry, Rath, but IS this debate not worthy of a MESSAGE BOARD? Did we suddenly cross a line? Some people spend their time waxing eloquent on their fave this or that. I like the political stuff. And trust me--I don't just type, I DO.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 12:19am

she is a three foot tall, shrill voiced little fundamentalist who can only play one character.. that is annoying as hell.. and she can say whatever she pleases, but by appearing on that show, she supports what the show supports and by voting for shrub, she endorses his policies.......

[B.B. Wolf]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 12:36am

Fair enough. And if it's a personal thing...um...consider my previous example stricken and my apologies for citing where I did not know the relationship. I'll delete my previous post. (also, because it was pretty reactionary.)

That being said, I don't agree that the 700 Club promotes hatred. It does, however, promote judgment of the worst kind: the kind that says that those we disagree with are "evil". Make no mistake, I'm not meaning to absolve Robertson's claims or anything they promote. But, as far as active promotion of hatred, I just don't see it.
Let's use your own examples: Jim Crow and KKK. Well, when was the last time anyone advocated that you were to be strung up to hang because you were gay? Had to use a separate water fountain? Separate bathroom? Please don't take this as me denigrating the struggles of the gay community because they're very real and worthy of more attention than the rest of the US gives it. All I'm saying is that we need to have a little perspective here. Civil Unions were just legalized in Connecticut!!! Isn't that cause for at least a little bit of celebration? Rather than griping that the rest of the country doesn't acquiesce immediately or fall like dominoes to our wishes, couldn't we savor the victory for a moment before going on the warpath again?
By claiming that because Robertson and his ilk do not agree with the gay lifestyle (even "condemn" it, or "promote hatred" as you've said) we should not associate with them (ie-go on their show) you essentially become OUR SIDE'S version of Pat Robertson. The other side of the judgment coin.
All that aside, if you do work to further gay rights where you live, that's fantastic and much love to you. Keep up the good work. But, ultimately, if people are invited on to a talk show to discuss the relationship between the Christian and the gay community, I hope it's someone a little less vitriolic and contentious than yourself that represents our side.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 12:44am

Broadwayguy2...you are FOOLISH. That is all.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 2:31am

BB--maybe I seem "a little ... vitriolic and contentious" on here, but trust me that while I do fight fire with fire, I can be pretty amiable and calm spoken when need be. I know that it might seem easy to label me as the equal to Pat Robertson, but the difference is his attacking people for who they are and my attacking someone who is attacking people for who they are.* :)Maybe I am a lil more in the Malcolm X camp than the MLK, Jr. camp. That's fine. We need a lil of both.

And, no, while I'm happy Conn is making progress, I am not content with Conn---Plessy vs. Ferguson taught us that "separate is NOT equal".

And, as for the comparing of gay civil rights to the Civil Rights movement: not one gay person is trying to say that what gays have been through is anywhere near the level of devastation that blacks have been through. However, that is not to belittle what gays have been through--and trust me, there have been MANY MANY MANY injustices in our country alone against gays and lesbians. And the similarities between the discrimination against blacks, Native Americans, women, Jews, and gays are very similar, proving that history does indeed repeat itself and that we rarely learn from our mistakes.

*"I hate people who hate" ----Madonna

[Parks]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 2:46am

OK-I'm JUST now realizing how big of a deal this is. Sure, it's great for the record sales..whatever. What pisses me off is when people say gays are sinners and are going to hell. Since those people are perfect and have NEVER sinned... Good Lord-this is so ridiculous. Jesus didn't judge and he said that if you ask for forgiveness, it will be given and you will be allowed into Heaven. Yeah, well-if being gay is a sin and a person asks for forgiveness, then God will give it.

Updated On: 4/23/05 at 02:46 AM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 3:43am

I'm really confused. I don't know HOW you can put racial discrimination and homosexual discrimination on the same level. Sure it's both discrimination but it's not the same thing. I'll explain my thoughts on this when I wake up tomorrow. Tooo tired now...

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 3:57am

Well, there are many black leaders who have no trouble accepting that gays and lesbians are in the midst of a "civil rights" movement. Women have gone through it, too. Any group that has to fight for equality undergoes a civil rights movement. I have already stated that gays in no way try to claim that they have had it as bad.

Clearly, for people of color, one's skin color "gives them away" from the onset. However, gays and lesbians (and transgendered) who do act stereotypical or who exemplify any action that "gives them away" (holding hands) or who come out/identify as gay can (and have) face discrimination at that point.

And furthermore, while some may argue that being gay isn't something you are born with (like race)--neither is one's religion something you are born with/something that is permanent. And even if I were to go along with the false notion that homosexuality is a behavior not unlike alcoholism, serial murder, or pedophilia, I would easily be able to argue that it is a behavior that does not infringe on anyone's civil rights or consent. It doesn't harm anyone. Aka--there is no justification to discriminate based on sexual orientation/gender identity.

So, I don't care what the stigma is--any group that is being discriminated against in the law books must undergo a civil rights movement to achieve equality.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 9:56am

broadwayguyg2, what on earth are you talking about? For one thing, she is 4'11" tall. I feel sorry for you if you think that's a character flaw. I am also that height because I had a birth defect that stunted my growth as a baby. Anyway, height has nothing to do with relgion. And so what if you don't like her speaking voice? She can't help that either. Obviously I don't know Kristin personally, but she has clearly stated that she is NOT a fundamentalist. You know what? You're being just as hateful as Pat Roberston. Comparing gay to Nazis is f*cking wrong and stupid, as I'm sure we all agree. But you are spewing just as much hate as he is when you make statements like that. You're not perfect, Kristin's not perfect, and I sure as hell ain't perfect. Let's leave it at that.

[Craig]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 10:17am

Two things I wanted to comment on.

1) Those suggesting that KC should have gone on some other program or promote her CD elsewhere should remember that she is doing that as well. Like it or not, politics or not, her latest cd is CHRISTIAN CD. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 700 Club - whatever your opinion of it is, is probably the biggest program in which the MARKETING her cd could have a huge impact on sales. It would be foolish to not use an avenue like the 700 club to promote her cd. It's not like she went onto the 700 club to talk about wicked and promote that show, or a broadway CD - she's promoting a christian CD.

2) The above being said, I will share a brief anecdote about a gay icon who I am friends with. This gay icon was invited to perform at a huge Republican event. He accepted and got quite a few hate emails, regular mail, etc. He accepted because, as he puts it, he wanted to make a statement. Him performing in front of people that "hated" his lifestyle was his sort of "F#$% you." The audience loving his performance and dancing along was his ultimate reward. He didn't move a mountain, and beyond the confines of the event, perhaps had no affect. But for the several minutes he was on that stage, the people who had "public" contempt for his lifestyle were taken out of their "comfort zone" and loved it.

Just because KC went on the 700 club doesn't mean she supports their views. Period. You might not like that she appeared on that show and you can have whatever opinion you want, ultimately - but you can't be presumptuous to assume that by appearing on the show, she is in support of what they stand for.

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 4/23/05 at 10:30am

Elphaba3, you ROCK!! Everything you said is right on. Broadwayguy2 is warped. I'm 4'11" too, so YAY for us!

[Spooky]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 6:22pm

Oh please, she didn't address anything.
Of course it was coincidental that she was doing the Windy City event, she was getting paid $17,000 to do it! She didn't do it because she gives a hoot about the gay community, they're just the only ones willing to pay her that much.
And the "talk" she's doing is still ending up a CD signing. More self-promotion.
Between the just backing out of the inauguration celebration and the 700 Club appearance, she obviously doesn't give a damn about the gay community, only when they react and cast her in negative light does she can't even say that she accepts the gay community, only that she sings with them and disagrees with people that say they're going to hell.
She was on Tony Danza, Letterman, The Today Show, the Early Show, A&E and print interviews and her Women of Faith concerts. There was no need to go on the 700 Club to promote that CD, she just doesn't care.
She's doing a poor job of alienating her audience. She puts the gay community on one end, the Christians on the other, both think she's now fake and there's no middle.
I hope they do give her some tough questions Tuesday night, see if she gives the same ditzy blonde responses and hope we don't notice.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 7:02pm

Craig--my point always was that she's duplicitous, and sold out her gay fans to hock her CD. I don't believe she supports what they say, and that's not the issue.
Be careful, or i'll sneak up and plant a BIG SMOOCH on your cheek next time I see you.

[Pinky]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 7:20pm

Craig--I totally agree with you!!!! I am a huge fan of this site...but don't agree with everything that is said by some of the members. Just because you're a member of an online community or a church doesn't mean you agree with everything. And as far as the marketing, she was smart for going on the 700 Club...it was a great show to sell her CD. The demographic is perfect...Christian families with enough disposable income to purchase entertainment items like CDs. Plus, the word of mouth would be great when they tell all their friends at church.

I think we should be happy she's going mainstream. She may bring in more people to start seeing Broadway shows. By the way, not all Christians are crazy like Pat. I don't think she sold anyone out...if I were selling a Christian CD...I'd do the show too!

[bunchamuncha]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 7:32pm

I don't think CBN is mainstream (thank goodness) and it remains to be seen whether or not the appearance did anything for her CD sales, she dropped from 31 to 41 on the Billboard Christian charts.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 7:36pm

UGH! What satanic beast brought this thread back from the trenches of hell????

[Mutts]

Posted: 4/24/05 at 9:00pm

"Correct me if I am wrong, but the 700 Club - whatever your opinion of it is, is probably the biggest program in which the MARKETING her cd could have a huge impact on sales. It would be foolish to not use an avenue like the 700 club to promote her cd"

I don't know, if the 700 Club were such a benign and logical program for those with Christian / inspirational CDs to promote, shouldn't there be scores of other artists listed as guest on that show. Why only the likes of John Tesh, Kathy Lee Gifford and Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis, Jr.