Chenoweth dropped from Christian Women Conference- Page 2

[Adam Chris]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:16pm

I just looked up Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37.

At 1st glance it would seem like we shouldn't judge others. However in both passages it goes on to say:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

The idea is we do have the authority to bring attention to something that is wrong...but only if we have that part of our lives in order. For example, if I was a gossiper, then it would be wrong for me to correct someone who was gossiping. I'd be guilty of the same thing.

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:21pm

This is the Kristin that I grew to admire and love

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:22pm

Okay, Gotham--just makin' sure...

And obviously, Cheno wasn't serving their interests, whatever they may be. I think it's the CWC's loss though. Who's the replacement?

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:23pm

I guess that would be one way to interpret in Adam, but I don't think it necessarily has to mean that you have to be guilty of the exact same thing, perhaps just something.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:24pm

People take Matthew 7 out of context. If I see someone stealing a car, I have a right to say to them "Don't steal that car". I'm not making a judgment, I'm just saying what God has already said. I agree with Adam Chris that if I'm doing it, while telling someone else not to, then it is wrong.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:25pm

"Who's the replacement?"

Sandi Patty.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:26pm

Good for KC's taking a stand against bigotry and hatred.

There are plenty of Christians who are in tune with her beliefs. She doesn't need the bigot kind.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:29pm

Judgement is like telling the person stealing the car that they're going to hell. You don't know that, so you shouldn't make an assumption of eternal damnation based on one action.


jrb, thanks for not making the same generalizations about Christians that too many people do.

Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how

Updated On: 9/15/05 at 04:29 PM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:31pm

I just gained a lot of respect for Cheno

I posted this on the Off-TOpic board but this is a good site detailing the Bible's teachings and how few Christian's follow them in full:


Are you a Homophobe?

[C is for Company]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:44pm

I applaud her so much, she gave herself a few pluses in my book for actually spreading real faith and not through snooty old women who think what they say is religion. Plus with a voice like that, who couldn't love her even more

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:45pm

Since this thread has already dissolved into a theological debate:

Many homophobes say they do not have to live by the laws of the Old Testament, only those mentioned in the New. They quote Paul to justify judging gays. Yet Jesus himself said: "Do not think that I came to abolish the law..." (Matthew 5:17)

They left out the rest of the verse. It says "I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

That's the reason Christians can say they follow the Bible, but are still able to shave, eat shrimp and wear poly-cotton blends. Basically, those types of laws were there so that people could earn their way into heaven. Once Jesus came and died, people no longer needed to follow those laws because he earned their way for them. It's the same reason why you no longer have to sacrifice animals.

Christian or not, I still don't understand like why that one verse in Leviticus gets more attention than all the thousands of others combined.

[Gelfling]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:51pm

"Just because some people who claim to have the same religious beliefs as you are jackasses doesn't mean that you have to give up on your own faith. After all that crap about fundi-Muslims came out after 9/11, other Muslims didn't renounce their faith, because that's a pathetic reaction."

You're absolutely right and I guess that's the reason she made a point in her announcement that it doesn't change her beliefs.
What I meant was that if she was to make another Christian CD, she'd probably have a hard time finding a label like Integrity to market it because of the risks of a major flop. I don't see what it has to do with music anyway but it seems her unchristian views make her less interesting as an artist.

oh and Sandi Patti? Do they know she sang at Clinton's inaugural? mmm... we might be looking at another cancellation

Now the Bible condemns Homosexuality several times but for some reason, those passages are still alive and well with the Christian right when others are forgotten about like the part where Loth sleeps with his daughters or people are being sold as slaves or that part that says that women captured in war may be raped as the winners see fit...

I'm not even talking about wearing garments made from different threads! I mean c'mon... How is it that the Christians who profess Jesus love the most are the ones who like to ignore the 'Love thy neighbour' part and rather focus on the violence preached in the Old Testament and yet hate Jews? Ironic, ain't it?

And since we are taking Bible quizzes... If you want to test your knownlegde about the Bible's freakiest teachings and less known facts (complete with the relevant quote) go to
https://www.landoverbaptist.org/quizlist.html

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:53pm

You can imagine, orangeskittles, how an atheist like me doesn't get it either...

My problem with Christians is that so many of them don't realize that in America, not everyone is a Christian. To me quoting the Bible to justify anything is the same as quoting Shakespeare.

I'm not trying to offend any Christians on the board, but put yourself in my shoes and think about how you'd feel when people want to run my life according to their religion.

That's my two cents--i'll go back to my three-way with Boobs and Borstal now...

[xM3L24x]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:57pm

i didnt know that kristin was gay.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 4:58pm

I just called the CWC headquarters and the person I spoke to said that Kristen was not dropped from the program because of her beliefs but rather for having anything at all to do with the movie BEWITCHED.

[xM3L24x]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:01pm

why would that have anything to do with it?

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:01pm

Adam,

You'll find the message of the plank in the eye story is not "get yourself straight so you can tell others how to live"...instead it is closer to the story of the adulterous woman: "let he who has no sin throw the first stone". I.E. our job as Christians isn't to dictate to people how to live their lives, but to feel love and show love and compassion...when we judge others, we are held to the same standard -- not just with that sin, but with all sins.

As a really frickin' awesome Derek Webb song says, "Love is what we should be known for".

And love "keeps no record of wrongs".

I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention that the Bible says nothing bad of any loving relationship -- gay or not. Only since the late 19th century was there any Christian theologian saying anything bad against gay people. Bad theology led fear-based American Christianity to say that being gay was wrong. Read the story of David and Jonathan, and tell me they didn't full on get married, have sex, and love -- all blessed by God. I'm not sure there is a more upfront story that could have been told about a loving gay relationship.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:06pm

Not to mention the FACT that modern translations aren't 100% accurate. They have been extremely susceptible to bias.

[DefyingEDCT]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:12pm

http://www.womenoffaith.com/msg/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62348



oh.. did I do that?

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:13pm

NO translation could POSSIBLY be accurate. These words were written in a culture VERY unlike ours, in a time VERY unlike ours, for a specific purpose. Until we grasp those cultural differences, the Bible will NEVER open up the way it is supposed to.

When it opens up right, Jesus' summary of the law makes the most sense: that is, the law can be summarized in its entirity as love you neighbor and love God.

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:23pm

Thanks for the link, Defying. WOW!!!

[Adam Chris]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:35pm

TMITmorning, but what was the point of the story with the adulterous woman? Yes, the town folks were too religious to see they were not showing mercy. But even Jesus told her to "Go, and sin no more."
a) Jesus showed mercy
b) Jesus addressed her sin issue (John 8:1-11)

The original point I was trying to make, is yes, we are allowed to point out what is wrong in the lives of other people.

Jesus was our model. Don't some of us want to be like Jesus?

We shouldn't be hypocrytical about it and we should show more compassion when addressing the wrong of others.
Updated On: 9/15/05 at 05:35 PM

[ShuQ]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 5:44pm

I'm not going to get into this big fight, because this isn't where it belongs, nor is it necessary, but I support Kristin in all that she says...I think she's got the right idea and I've actually learned from some of the things she's said.

[DefyingEDCT]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 6:00pm

im just waiting for the replys to come in that post lol!!

[YessicaB]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 6:02pm

Touch me in the morning you said: "I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention that the Bible says nothing bad of any loving relationship -- gay or not".
I've been shown passages in the Old testament were it is very clear that God does indeed condemn homosexual realationships. (not saying that's what i believe, just correcting you.)