#126
Posted: 2/3/08 at 6:18pm
Spoilers in this post...
(Although I don't know why you'd be reading it if you hadn't seen the show...)
It's kind of surprising to me that this thread has gone on for so long with so little mention of the fact that Wendla dies. It seems people, including yourself, are so in love with this show that they don't want to accept that it portrays anything negative, completely disregarding the fact that the negativity would actually make its message far more powerful. And, you know, that Wendla DIES.
Let me break this down for you.
Wendla dies. She dies BECAUSE SHE GETS PREGNANT. She gets pregnant because she has sex. Sex that she doesn't even understand. Sex that she has because Melchior coerced her into doing it, because he believes it's love, he wants to get off, whatever it is that Melchior believes. But really? He knew what he was doing, and his decision to get her to go through with this act, in essence, killed her. That's the tragedy of it all, really isn't it? That this young, innocent girl ends up dying because of what her mother never told her? For the sake of his d*ck. Do we forgive him? That may be reckless and careless and ultimately an accident -- I'm not saying he SET OUT to kill her, that would be absurd -- but his knowledge was much greater than hers. Certainly adult society is much to blame, that's the point of the play, but where, in the story of those two children, does the downfall begin? Look at the tragedy his carelessness wrought. All because she didn't know. You don't have to intend to hold power over someone to have it. Sometimes it just is.
And he's just as naive as she is? I completely disagree. He knows what he's doing. She does not. He knows more about sex than she does. Please don't turn this into a debate of semantics, because it's not. I don't care if he never heard the word rape. It's not important. This is not about being able to put a term to it; there's still an issue of consent whether or not he's been told, "rape is when you..." With as much as he knows about the consequences of sexual intercourse, he should not have been doing it without her consent. He willingly. put. her. at. risk. Perhaps his intentions were not malicious, as I've already said I believe to be true, but he still did it. He was reckless. He doesn't have to see it as sexual abuse to know that when you're going to do something like that, you don't do it unless both parties are willing, especially given that he's aware that she doesn't know the risks, and doesn't know what's going on.
Why do you think this is a show set in 19th century Germany, staged with modern rock music? This is not a show about 19th century German society. It was created to be applicable to this society, in favor of self-exploration and expression, in opposition to repression. To say "this is what happens when we repress our children." So I'm sorry, going on about how in today's society, he would know, but back then, he didn't, doesn't fit the bill. You are trying way, way too hard to make a hero out of him. Just like the writers of that show.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
(Although I don't know why you'd be reading it if you hadn't seen the show...)
It's kind of surprising to me that this thread has gone on for so long with so little mention of the fact that Wendla dies. It seems people, including yourself, are so in love with this show that they don't want to accept that it portrays anything negative, completely disregarding the fact that the negativity would actually make its message far more powerful. And, you know, that Wendla DIES.
Let me break this down for you.
Wendla dies. She dies BECAUSE SHE GETS PREGNANT. She gets pregnant because she has sex. Sex that she doesn't even understand. Sex that she has because Melchior coerced her into doing it, because he believes it's love, he wants to get off, whatever it is that Melchior believes. But really? He knew what he was doing, and his decision to get her to go through with this act, in essence, killed her. That's the tragedy of it all, really isn't it? That this young, innocent girl ends up dying because of what her mother never told her? For the sake of his d*ck. Do we forgive him? That may be reckless and careless and ultimately an accident -- I'm not saying he SET OUT to kill her, that would be absurd -- but his knowledge was much greater than hers. Certainly adult society is much to blame, that's the point of the play, but where, in the story of those two children, does the downfall begin? Look at the tragedy his carelessness wrought. All because she didn't know. You don't have to intend to hold power over someone to have it. Sometimes it just is.
And he's just as naive as she is? I completely disagree. He knows what he's doing. She does not. He knows more about sex than she does. Please don't turn this into a debate of semantics, because it's not. I don't care if he never heard the word rape. It's not important. This is not about being able to put a term to it; there's still an issue of consent whether or not he's been told, "rape is when you..." With as much as he knows about the consequences of sexual intercourse, he should not have been doing it without her consent. He willingly. put. her. at. risk. Perhaps his intentions were not malicious, as I've already said I believe to be true, but he still did it. He was reckless. He doesn't have to see it as sexual abuse to know that when you're going to do something like that, you don't do it unless both parties are willing, especially given that he's aware that she doesn't know the risks, and doesn't know what's going on.
Why do you think this is a show set in 19th century Germany, staged with modern rock music? This is not a show about 19th century German society. It was created to be applicable to this society, in favor of self-exploration and expression, in opposition to repression. To say "this is what happens when we repress our children." So I'm sorry, going on about how in today's society, he would know, but back then, he didn't, doesn't fit the bill. You are trying way, way too hard to make a hero out of him. Just like the writers of that show.
Updated On: 2/3/08 at 06:18 PM
I think, with her, it's quite simply a situation where... your mind says no and then your body says yes and eventually, your mind is powerless to do anything but follow. She likes how it feels, so she figures, why not? And once she stops resisting him, yes, she is also at fault for what happens to her.
