Evita white washing controversy? — Page 4

There are a lot of issues here.  

Why can't there be a respectful conversation about them?  Why does every consideration of these issues on this board have to descend into such hostility and name-calling?

I think many on this board have raised good albeit debatable points.  But rather than engaging with each other, there's so much talking over each other and unnecessary vitriol.

Granted, there are people who go way overboard on bww, and say the most objectionable things.  But is there any reason to view someone's calling attention to the simple fact - which it appears many don't realize - that the principles in EVITA were all of European heritage* have to be one of them?   Is there any valid reason to conflate that point with something it simply is not - for instance, an argument that the principles in EVITA must be played by Caucasian actors?   A misconstruction which, as I understand it, the poster has repeatedly stated was not intended!

*Granted Che is not necessarily Che Guevara.  However in many productions, including the original Broadway cast, he clearly evokes Che Guevara.  And in fact some of the lyrics clearly allude to Che Guevara in describing Che.

Updated On: 9/14/17 at 10:18 AM

What I think is strange, if this production of Evita is being criticized for whitewashing, why isn't the LA production of Bright Star being criticized? 

bdn223 said: "Sometimes though this has the effect of ending up with all white leads, which we cannot balk at because statistically speaking when more white performers audition then minority performers, you are more likely to end up a majority white cast."

Exactly. Unfortunately people feel forced to deliberately cast on race nowadays. Casting someone of color in a neutral role just for the sake of it. To not get backlash, etc. Which is a step backwards.

Like I said, it's what happened back in the day and doing it today but then the other way around "to get even" is just as primitive. You should never put a certain color before another just because of it. As described above, not having a person of color in 4 leads means nothing as it can have multiple reasons per definition.

 

Updated On: 9/14/17 at 12:30 PM

Agustin Magaldi


Juan Peron


Che and the mistress are fictional and frankly, can look like any Argentine of the period, of which there is a broad spectrum of skin tones and appearances.  If you have the resources to cast with accurate specificity the the country of origin or whatever degree of match you personally believe is essential to the ethnicity of the actors, then by all means, do so.  Not everyone has those resources nor do they agree on the degree of accuracy.  What are the specific criteria considered acceptable for the casting of the roles?  What if an Italian-American guy was the closest in appearance to Magaldi and had the best voice for the character's range?  

I've read accounts of people saying that casting Latinx characters based on looks is a tricky thing because white people can "pass" as Latinx. Look at Constantine Maroulis, a Greek-American playing Che who said "I’m not exactly a loaf of Wonder Bread" when interviewed about this specific situation. Does having tan or olive skin make it okay to play Latino?

A friend posted on Facebook that it's not just about the skin tone of this real life figure; Eva Peron is specifically a Latina political figure, no matter how white she looked. People identify her as a strong Latina woman regardless of who played her in a musical or a movie. I wouldn't think of casting Julie in Show Boat with a white woman even though she's a black woman who passed as white. I would find a black woman who can pass as white. Should this not be the same, a Latina woman who can pass as white/European if that's a plot point or central to the character? (This was a simile controversy when Emma Stone was cast as an Asian woman who passed as white in Aloha...not okay. There's plenty of Asian or mixed people who can "pass." See also: Jonathan Pryce in Miss Saigon, and he won a Tony in the midst at that off-color [pun intended] casting.)

Actually, blackface (or yellowface, any other variant) is any kind of makeup that is applied to change the skin tone of an actor. So if Olivier used any makeup to darken the color of his skin to play Othello, that's considered blackface. Jonathan Pryce altering the shape of his eyes is yellowface. White opera singers using makeup to alter their skin tone to play Otello and Butterfly is blackface and yellowface, respectively. 

Updated On: 9/14/17 at 02:55 PM

I'm raising a point a friend posted on Facebook. I understand the differences. I'm a first-generation Asian-American; my eyes are fully open to what's racist. Thanks!

My parents live in Buenos Aires for several years in the 90s (and subsequently, several years in Columbia).  When it comes to Buenos Aires, it's not just about being South American or even Latinx.  Citizens of Buenos Aires consider themselves to be in an entirely different class from Argentina and would often be offended when generalized as merely Latinx, South American or even Argentine.

On a side note, my parents were given a posh penthouse by his company while employed in Buenos Aires and across the street from them was a famous hotel.  Every morning, my parents would have breakfast on the balcony and wave to Antonio Banderas and Melanie Griffith as they ate on their balcony of the hotel during the time Antonio was filming for Evita.

"Perhaps it's helpful, five pages in, to streamline what the controversy has become: not that EVITA cast its entire leading company of white people, but that a MAJOR MUSICAL PRODUCTION IN 2017 cast its entire leading company of white people."

Very true, and I think it should be pointed out much more often, and I don't recall hearing anything of the kind said about the lead casting of Something Rotten, Gigi, Bright Star, Dames At Sea, Hello, Dolly, or many other recent Broadway shows. However, it becomes a major discussion when Americans, in their racial confusion, believe that all South Americans are Latinx, and get upset when a show set in South America has all white leads.

newintown said: ""Perhaps it's helpful, five pages in, to streamline what the controversy has become: not that EVITA cast its entire leading company of white people, but that a MAJOR MUSICAL PRODUCTION IN 2017 cast its entire leading company of white people."

Very true, and I think it should be pointed out much more often, and I don't recall hearing anything of the kind said about the lead casting ofSomething Rotten,Gigi,Bright Star,Dames At Sea, Hello, Dolly, or many other recent Broadway shows. However, it becomes a major discussion when Americans, in their racial confusion, believe that all South Americans are Latinx, and get upset when a show set in South America has all white leads."

You don't hear about it because white casting is comodity. They are represented everywhere and have been for centuries onstage. If there is an opportunity to cast someone from a different background, it is socially conscious to take the opportunity and display your commitment to diversity.  That is what Hanney should have done instead of saying he didn't look at these matters at all when casting this production.

theatregeek6 said: 

"White washing" - casting a person of any race in a role for which they are they best available actor (even if the character is a real person) unless that actor is white."

Maybe I'm in a brainfog, but I don't at all understand what you are trying to say with this definition.  

 

theatregeek6 said: "btw -I am a huge fan of color blind casting in most cases (my only issue was in Les Mis when young Eponine was white and adult Eponine was black - that irked me as lazy for some reason) "

I once saw a black Eponine who was horrible, very amateurish and not the right type for the role at all. Which irked me. Not because she was black, just because she was not good in the role at all. I never understood it but they must have had a reason to hire her.......

I think a lot of these so called "color blind" castings are actually very color focused. Which is a bad thing.

Updated On: 9/14/17 at 04:58 PM

JennH said: "HeyMrMusic said: "I've read accounts of people saying that casting Latinx characters based on looks is a tricky thing because white people can "pass" as Latinx. Look at Constantine Maroulis, a Greek-American playing Che who said"I’m not exactly a loaf of Wonder Bread" when interviewed about this specific situation.Does having tan orolive skin make it okay to play Latino?

A friend posted on Facebook that it's not just about the skin tone of this real life figure; Eva Peron is specifically a Latina political figure, no matter how white she looked. People identify her as a strong Latina woman regardless ofwho played her in a musical or a movie. I wouldn't think of casting Julie inShow Boatwith a white woman even though she's a black woman who passed as white. I would find a black woman who can pass as white. Should this not be the same, a Latina woman who can pass as white/European if that's a plot point or central to the character? (This was a simile controversy when Emma Stone was cast as an Asian woman who passed as white in Aloha...not okay. There's plenty of Asian or mixed people who can "pass." See also: Jonathan Pryce in Miss Saigon, and he won a Tony in the midst at that off-color [pun intended]casting.)"

This is the only thing I'm going to say on this thread, and I'm done.This is probably the most sensible thing I've heard about this, and heaven knows these people exists, but then what? The person hired gets asked to mark their ethnicity somewhere or take a blood test to make sure they've have Lantinx somewhere? Because honestly, if they pass as white, you wouldn't be able to tell they're Lantinx otherwise, andthat's a a potential slippery slope...Heck the gal doing it at NSMT looks Latina, if no one told me she wasn't, I would have thought she is."

I would also add that it is illegal to ask a performer about their race, ethnicity and nationality during an audition, so it can be challenging to find out their background.  You can't just schedule actors whose last names sound typical to their ethnicity.  According to the 2000 census, the top 5 most common names of people who identified as Hispanic were Smith, Johnson, Williams, Brown and Jones.  Taking this into consideration, you sometimes have to go by looks when seeking white actors with specific ethnic backgrounds.