Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about — Page 5

Hogan, thanks for those kind words! it seems like we're the only sensible people left.

I actually kind of find the term "showtune" offensives and belittling, making it sound like they're just simple little ditties.

HogansHero said: "@qolbinau nice try but opinions are still not right or wrong (even though the ones that amount to guesses on future events might later prove to be), and hyperbole is still a valid device.

@gaveston "hate" is not my word but I do believe (and the data backs me up unless you don't believe data) that a large majority of people dislike musicals. And ironically, I suspect that growing up on them is part of the cause because (1) they were force fed to us in school, often by teachers who didn't do a very good job of making them resonate for us (ditto, even more sadly, for Shakespeare) and (2) as adults they are viewed as kids' stuff-to be left behind with Thomas the Train. Add to the mix that the music is so different from that which is popular with kids and you understand why the theatre comes off as medicine rather than candy. My 10 year old nephew has been rapping for a few years-guess what musical he wants to see....



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Hogan, with respect, I think most of that is exactly what I said. Like opera (and Victorian novels and Impressionist paintings), musicals have a set of conventions and if one doesn't understand the conventions, one isn't likely to enjoy either the form. The general indifference to musical theater in this country is a product of poor education--but since most students can't find the U.S. on a map, I'm not going to argue that studying MY FAIR LADY should be the top priority.

So if you must insist that opinions cannot be right or wrong (How can the opinion "Donal Trump is authentic" not be wrong when 90% of what he says is demonstrably untrue?), then perhaps you'd prefer the adjectives "educated" and "ignorant". Yes, some people are educated about musical theater and still dislike it; but in my experience they are quite few in number.

@Gaveston, also with respect, I couldn't disagree more and you could not misunderstand my education point more.

First, I don't agree there are conventions and certainly not conventions as to which the audience requires education. Adherence to conventions is what got musicals in the sorry state it was in for the better part of a half century.

Second, musical theatre is not opera; it is a form of popular entertainment. That's its provenance, and again, what got musicals in trouble was when it diverged from the popular coverage over a half century ago.

Third, the schools are complicit not in failing to "teach" musical theatre to kids, but in force-feeding them antiquated musicals that they are turned off by once they outgrow them. (And if you talk to kids, you'll hear that they think musicals are for children and once they aspire to adulthood, it goes out with the trains and building blocks etc. )

I don't think there is serious difficulty appreciating the difference between an opinion and something that is demonstrable. If it is demonstrable, it is not an opinion.