Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about — Page 3

@qolbinau I don't see where I condescended; it was certainly not my intention. You, on the other hand, called her and apparently now most of the world ignorant, which strikes me as more than a little condescending, but no matter.

You stated two of her opinions. You then said she did not know what she was talking about (which, in essence, means she does not know what her own opinions are). I assume what you really meant was that you disagreed with her opinions (and we needn't even discuss that you cannot "prove" an opinion one way or the other because opinions are not facts.) So it seems to me what you offered was a garden variety posture that only your opinion counts. In noting that most people don't like musicals (or hate them if you want to go for Fran's hyperbole) I was simply countering your post putatively proving that she doesn't know what she's talking about by offering the fact that since most people share her opinion (some without hyperbole) your " proof" was not on very firm footing. Now that I have the benefit of your last post, I now know that you think everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. Very well then.

@Eric I think you are right most people's attitude does not rise to the level of hate, but as we have been rehearsing here for a while now, you have to filter Fran's " hate" through the hyperbole that is her trademark. And I think a fairly large segment of the population indeed knows nothing about the theatre because most of the population has never been exposed to it. So perhaps the right way to frame this is to say that most culturally aware people (and as a quintessential New Yorker Fran certainly has that pedigree) do not like musicals.

I'm always surprised when people here get so defensive about the fact that they love something that has not, for many years, enjoyed a prominent place in our broader culture. I can't think of any other art form that exhibits that kind of sentiment.

sorry but I think that's preposterous.

People don't immerse themselves in what they dislike. You don't; I don't. When we don't like something, we move on. I don't like roller coasters. I don't need to travel the world riding roller coasters to make certain I am not just ignorant of their pleasures. I don't like atonal music. I don't need to go to more concerts or crank up more atonal music on Spotify to make sure. Lebo doesn't like musicals and, now that she's a grown woman, she does not owe it to you or anyone to become better informed about something she does not like before letting us know she doesn't like it. I think you are WAY off base here.

Jane2 said: "Put on your listening ears, son. Yes, we've established that she doesn't go often. I said she doesn't go often because SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT. Getting it now?

So that makes it okay for her to make outlandish statements like there has only been one good musical in her lifetime while she openly admits that she barely sees any? That isn't an ignorant thing to say?

This was not directed at you, put on your seeing glasses. I said "apropos of" in general, not to you.

And it's refreshing to hear that you don't care whether I like rap or not. At least you finally admit to no being bothered about other peoples' opinions. Yay!"

If you quote me and then carry on a post, I'm going to assume it's still directed at me unless you say otherwise. And I'm sorry, do you want me to care about your opinion on rap? I've never tried to claim that I care about other people's opinions so it's not a case of 'finally admitting'. I might care about the opinions of people I know, or admire, but I don't know you and no, I don't care about whether you like rap or not, as I'm sure you don't care whether I do.

Also, please stop with the condescension. I can read and hear perfectly fine. If your posts are unclear as to what you mean, then that's not my fault.

Updated On: 5/9/16 at 04:50 AM

In the grand scheme of things Who Gives A ****** ****

Goblin said "What I meant was that her opinions are ill-informed. There is no way that someone can claim there has been only one good musical in the last 65 years unless they know a lot about musicals, which Fran Lebowitz clearly doesn't given she doesn't attend the theatre often. This is why she doesn't know what she is talking about."

But I'm repeating that it's only her opinion that Hamilton is the only good musical, etc. That doesn't mean it's a fact. None of our opinions on art can be misconstrued as facts.

No problem.

"I wonder what her comment would be if an icon of the musical theater world - say Angela Lansbury - came out and said that Joan Marcus was the only "good" photographer of her lifetime?"

Or if Lisa Kron said that David Sedaris is the only good satirical essayist of her lifetime.

Mmm, her statement seems to fly in the face of the theory that people who know nothing of musicals will suddenly be drawn to them by their fervor for the greatest show of all time.



I now eagerly await her effusions for everything from Roberta to Sponge Bob.

After Eight said: "Mmm, her statement seems to fly in the face of the theory that people who know nothing of musicals will suddenly be drawn to them by their fervor for the greatest show of all time."

There's a difference between people that actively dislike musicals and those that have just never thought to give them a chance before. The latter group is the one that people could see being introduced to musicals as an interest through Hamilton, or any other show that reaches the mainstream.

@gypsy thank you. Sometimes I think you and I are the only ones who don't feel defensive that we like something that is not enjoying widespread enthusiasm. (Even if what we enjoy may not always be the same thing LOL)

Sure she was serious. She meant what she said. For the third time, it's only her opinion. Some of you in this thread should let go of those pearls. It's not at all important in the scheme of things, really.

I am listening and responding. We've already discussed (and I have acknowledged) that her subjective experience watching the show cannot be 'wrong'. The fact that she has only apparently enjoyed Hamilton is necessarily true. However, when giving an appraisal or evaluation about something, of course some opinions can be less informed than others.

If I were to say "in my opinion" Broadwayworld is the only good forum on the internet, just because it is 'my opinion' does not mean it is well-informed unless I actually had some experience using other forums (the exact amount necessary to be 'informed' is a whole other discussion). What we do know is that Fran Lebowitz has not had much experience watching musicals, hence being ill-informed.

As I have said before, an opinion she can express without being controversial would be: "Hamilton is the only musical I enjoyed". There is no way anyone can argue with that - it's true! But her claim is that Hamilton is the best musical in her lifetime. You don't get a free pass on that because it's an 'opinion'.

Updated On: 5/9/16 at 07:07 PM