Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about- Page 2
Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
#25Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 3:08pm
aaaa said"Okay we're going to have to agree to disagree. I do think it's wrong to dismiss an entire art form on the basis that you don't see hardly any of it anyway."
And why do you think she hardly sees it? Because she doesn't like it. oy
Apropos to blanket statements on disliking a genre of art: I've been around and current for decades. From the start of rap until now. So that means I've heard TONS of it. All kinds of it. So, I more than dislike it. You say I haven't heard the rap that's different, that I would like? Well, I'm here to tell you that I don't have the slightest desire to delve through the annals of rap to find one that I like.
#26Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 3:27pm
Brody your experience sounds more like overdosing or that the current experience can't live up to your memories. That's common for anyone who was obsessed with something starting at a young age and completely different 
But as followspot says, this is simply Fran's schtick. She makes sweeping statements as her comedy and created personality. I mean from the little I know of her she probably at least appreciates some Sondheim.
I don't think the majority of the population hate musicals--the more common reaction is utter indifference. Theatre in general--it's not like it's common for plays to do much better than musicals. There's a reason that when a show breaks they the pop culture zeitgeist like Ham, Chorus Line, Mix or, God help us, Cats suddenly people go who just would never think to see a theatre production before. I remember as a kid my uncle, a straight, then early middle aged business man used to travel for work a lot and would always try to see a band or concert on trips to break up the monotony. The only time I remember that being theatre related was Phantom when it was running for years in Toronto because he had seen the ads and heard it mentioned so much. If he were still travelling with work he would prob try to go to Ham if he were in New York for the same reason but there's no way he would go to, say, Something Rotten.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#27Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 3:27pm
Jane2 said: "And why do you think she hardly sees it? Because she doesn't like it. oy"
No because Frank Rich says he tries to drag her to the theatre and he can never get her to go so it's quite clear that she doesn't go often...
"You say I haven't heard the rap that's different, that I would like? Well, I'm here to tell you that I don't have the slightest desire to delve through the annals of rap to find one that I like."
I literally have not mentioned rap and you in the same sentence once. So no I have not said that and I couldn't care less whether you try to find rap music you like or not.
#28Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 3:34pm
As for that link, the text claims many think Rich hates musicals. What? This is a common belief? Of course he has a rep for being tough on shows but it's obvious he loves the genre -- Hell he got into the biz largely on the strength of the college paper piece he wrote on Follies.
#29Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:01pm
@aaaaaa-it seems we are just talking past each other. And you seem to be the one who needs a crash course in nuance appreciation since you obviously conflate the use of the device of hyperbole and ignorance. But you haven't listened to a thing I've said so far so not sure why you'd start now.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#30Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:14pm
HogansHero said: "@aaaaaa-it seems we are just talking past each other. And you seem to be the one who needs a crash course in nuance appreciation since you obviously conflate the use of the device of hyperbole and ignorance. But you haven't listened to a thing I've said so far so not sure why you'd start now."
Okay. I think people should say what they mean. If you say you hate musicals then I'm going to assume you hate musicals. If you haven't seen many musicals and still say this then I will think you are ignorant. I can recognize hyperbole in the case of Fran here, but simply saying you dislike or hate something doesn't automatically scream hyperbole to me. I actually have listened and believe I have responded and defended my point of view appropriately. If you don't think so then I'm sure I'll get along with my day just fine.
#31Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:38pm
aaaaaa15 said: " simply saying you dislike or hate something doesn't automatically scream hyperbole to me."
This is where our "disconnect" is.The hyperbole I am talking about (which is a modest one) is in her saying she hates musicals rather than qualifying it with "most" which, it seems, would have made you happier. The hating is not the hyperbole I am talking about. And the use of the sort of hyperbole I AM talking about is a well accepted device that brings the comparison into high relief. Stated differently, it has more rhetorical force than my saying that I like some but nowhere near all musicals but I love Hamilton. When I said you are not listening to me, I was referring to the fact that you continue to focus on one hyperbole (that's not at issue) and to ignore the one I am trying to discuss with you. If you get it now, fine; if not, you are right that we can both live happily ever after notwithstanding.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#32Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:45pm
HogansHero said: "This is where our "disconnect" is.The hyperbole I am talking about (which is a modest one) is in her saying she hates musicals rather than qualifying it with "most" which, it seems, would have made you happier. The hating is not the hyperbole I am talking about. And the use of the sort of hyperbole I AM talking about is a well accepted device that brings the comparison into high relief. Stated differently, it has more rhetorical force than my saying that I like some but nowhere near all musicals but I love Hamilton. When I said you are not listening to me, I was referring to the fact that you continue to focus on one hyperbole (that's not at issue) and to ignore the one I am trying to discuss with you. If you get it now, fine; if not, you are right that we can both live happily ever after notwithstanding."
I wouldn't have commented in this thread if all she had said was 'I hate musicals but liked Hamilton.' As I said, I would have rolled my eyes but that's about it. I don't know why you're trying to discuss that hyperbole with me when it's not the hyperbole that I have taken issue with. I would rather people specify what they mean however I know that's unrealistic so I wont get too angry about that. I will get angry about Fran saying Hamilton is the only good musical in her lifetime and that it's one of the worst inventions in human history, especially as she's saying it in a public forum. That's offensive to people that have made excellent theatre during her lifetime that she has probably never seen. That hyperbole is the one that's at issue to me as that is the one that I originally posted about.
If you want to have a debate about the 'modest hyperbole' then I don't see the point. You're fine with it, I think it's silly. Neither of our viewpoints will change how often it happens. What else is there to say?
#33Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:56pm
...I have no idea why either of you think that point is even worth arguing back and forth...
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#34Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 4:58pm
I personally don't consider it an argument, just a debate and we're all on here to either discuss or debate and share our opinions.
It does seem like this one has reached its conclusion though.
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#35Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 5:20pm
aaaaaa15 said: "Okay. I think people should say what they mean. If you say you hate musicals then I'm going to assume you hate musicals."
If you do that, you'll be missing out on a lot of Lebowitz' humor.
I had originally written that being a curmudgeon was part of her "schtick", but I think I should revise that. Her Wikipedia page describes her as being, "known for her sardonic social commentary on American life as filtered through her New York City sensibilities." Sardonic (adj. Scornfully or cynically mocking. See Synonyms at sarcastic.) is much more accurate, I think.
I miss seeing her on David Letterman. 
#36Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 5:25pm
Exactly. I mean she talks about banning babies from being in public, etc. I'm sure she would find the serious tone of much of this thread highly bemusing.
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#37Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 5:28pm
To be clear, I wasn't talking about Fran specifically with that remark, just a generalized statement.
I don't know of Fran or her sense of humor but I'm sure if someone uses hyperbole often enough then you get used to it and know to expect it.
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#38Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 5:35pm
EricMontreal22 said: "I'm sure she would find the serious tone of much of this thread highly bemusing."
Yuppers.
#39Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 6:03pm
aaaaaa15 said: "To be clear, I wasn't talking about Fran specifically with that remark, just a generalized statement.
I don't know of Fran or her sense of humor but I'm sure if someone uses hyperbole often enough then you get used to it and know to expect it."
I thought I was done but then you install this little bit of low hanging fruit. If you do not know of her or her sense of humor, then your comments on what she said seems no different (or perhaps less justifiable) than her discarding all of musical theatre on the basis of a limited (if that's true, I doubt it is) exposure. I am not obliged to get a PhD in Chemistry before stating that I find it unbelievably uninteresting.
#40Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 7:01pm
"The thing I hate most in the world are musicals. Among the many awful inventions of human it is in the top 2."
I'm saddened to hear Fran say that.
I was so looking forward to seeing her Horace Vandergelder to Midler's Dolly.
I wonder what the other thing of her "top 2" is. Penning mediocre social satire?
"
aaaaaa15
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/31/15
#41Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 7:06pm
HogansHero said: "I thought I was done but then you install this little bit of low hanging fruit. If you do not know of her or her sense of humor, then your comments on what she said seems no different (or perhaps less justifiable) than her discarding all of musical theatre on the basis of a limited (if that's true, I doubt it is) exposure. I am not obliged to get a PhD in Chemistry before stating that I find it unbelievably uninteresting. "
I know of her. I don't know her. That was a mistype. I still don't think what she said is right even if she does have a hyperbolic sense of humor as as I said, it could be offensive to people that work hard to make musicals. However, like I said, if you knew Fran (or were a fan of hers) I'm sure you would come to expect it.
You may not be done but I am. Thanks and bye.
VintageSnarker
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/30/15
#42Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 7:49pm
I'm being completely serious... Who?
Also... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDKPwtJH2nQ
#43Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 7:52pm
Fran is an acquired taste. I'm glad I've acquired it.
JM226
Broadway Star Joined: 11/10/15
#44Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 10:35pm
thank god we have the enlightened one, Hoganshero, to school us all on what we are supposed to say and how we are supposed to feel. Seriously, dude?
#45Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 10:38pm
HogansHero said: "She represents the majority opinion in this country.
"
What does this have to do with anything?
#46Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 10:54pm
aaaa "Jane2 said: "And why do you think she hardly sees it? Because she doesn't like it. oy"
No because Frank Rich says he tries to drag her to the theatre and he can never get her to go so it's quite clear that she doesn't go often...'
Put on your listening ears, son. Yes, we've established that she doesn't go often. I said she doesn't go often because SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT. Getting it now?
aaaaaaaa-"You say I haven't heard the rap that's different, that I would like? Well, I'm here to tell you that I don't have the slightest desire to delve through the annals of rap to find one that I like."
I literally have not mentioned rap and you in the same sentence once. So no I have not said that and I couldn't care less whether you try to find rap music you like or not.
This was not directed at you, put on your seeing glasses. I said "apropos of" in general, not to you.
And it's refreshing to hear that you don't care whether I like rap or not. At least you finally admit to no being bothered about other peoples' opinions. Yay!
#47Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 10:54pm
aaaa "Jane2 said: "And why do you think she hardly sees it? Because she doesn't like it. oy"
No because Frank Rich says he tries to drag her to the theatre and he can never get her to go so it's quite clear that she doesn't go often...'
Put on your listening ears, son. Yes, we've established that she doesn't go often. I said she doesn't go often because SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT. Getting it now?
aaaaaaaa-"You say I haven't heard the rap that's different, that I would like? Well, I'm here to tell you that I don't have the slightest desire to delve through the annals of rap to find one that I like."
I literally have not mentioned rap and you in the same sentence once. So no I have not said that and I couldn't care less whether you try to find rap music you like or not.
This was not directed at you, put on your seeing glasses. I said "apropos of" in general, not to you.
And it's refreshing to hear that you don't care whether I like rap or not. At least you finally admit to no being bothered about other peoples' opinions. Yay!
#48Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 11:02pm
@JM226 (aka Troll)-First, I did nothing of the sort. I was having an intelligent discussion with another poster who supported his or her position as I did mine. That's a concept I gather you are unfamiliar with since whenever the time comes for you to support a position, you disappear from the thread. This seems to be a chronic condition for you. Secondly, yes, I am a serious dude. Are you a troll? That conclusion seems inescapable on the strength of what you post here.
@qolbinau-what it has to do with is the subject of the thread. Read and digest it. I'm sure you can appreciate the relevance of her opinion vis-a-vis general public opinion.
#49Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about
Posted: 5/8/16 at 11:20pm
HogansHero said: "@JM226 (aka Troll)-First, I did nothing of the sort. I was having an intelligent discussion with another poster who supported his or her position as I did mine. That's a concept I gather you are unfamiliar with since whenever the time comes for you to support a position, you disappear from the thread. This seems to be a chronic condition for you. Secondly, yes, I am a serious dude. Are you a troll? That conclusion seems inescapable on the strength of what you post here.
@qolbinau-what it has to do with is the subject of the thread. Read and digest it. I'm sure you can appreciate the relevance of her opinion vis-a-vis general public opinion.
"
lol come on you're being a little condescending now. I obviously want you to make the point I think you're trying to make more explicit so I can make sure I respond accurately, but I'll bite regardless: we're talking about her, not the general public. I'd equally argue the general public are ignorant when it comes to musicals too. As they are many other topics (nearly 20 million people have voted for Trump and Cruz in the Republican primary!). Nothing necessarily wrong with being ignorant about musicals, it's just the way it is. I suppose it is a little more annoying though when someone stands up in public and dismisses the work of many artists (except for those involved in one show, apparently). I find it a bit silly that there would be people defending her on here of all places.
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