Fran Lebowitz proving she doesn't know what she is talking about

Yes she sounded incredibly uninformed and ignorant. The only thing I agreed with her on is that it's nice to see the commercially successful show be one that is actually good.

I think part of her "schtick" is being a curmudgeon.

She represents the majority opinion in this country. Perhaps the greatest contribution of Hamilton is that it has shifted that opinion ever so slightly. It doesn't mean that anyone here who likes 'em should like 'em any less but if you don't realize this you are living in a bubble.

I just think saying 'I hate musicals' is almost as stupid as saying 'I hate films' or 'I hate music'. There's such a wide variety and as Fran herself has proven by loving Hamilton, she doesn't hate them all. Also, this opinion is so often spouted by people who rarely see musicals and only know of the most mainstream ones, which a lot of times, aren't the ones that are actually great.

I actually think that's how the majority of non theater goers feel. I've heard numerous people say musicals are lame and the breaking into song is cheesy. There are even theater lovers who only see plays for the same reason. She's speaking for more people than you think.

It just all boils down to opinion.

Whether we agree with an opinion or not, no one's opinion can be called "wrong." It's a matter of opinion, lol!

And as to the title of this thread - she knows exactly what she's talking about. It's how she feels.

Updated On: 5/8/16 at 11:31 AM

Okay we're going to have to agree to disagree. I do think it's wrong to dismiss an entire art form on the basis that you don't see hardly any of it anyway. If you don't want to see it then you don't have to but to claim it's one of the worst inventions humans have made (I'm aware that that was probably hyperbole) when you don't actually see much of it is bizarre to me.

I don't see a lot of sports because I'm not interested in it, but I don't ever say sports are awful, sports are a terrible invention, I hate sports etc. because I haven't ever properly tried to like them so my opinion would be based out of ignorance.

Nothing unusual for Lebowitz. She's a humorist whose trademark is curmudgeonly hyperbole. Get over it.

She doesn't "know" anything, she is giving her opinion and it is valid for her. Whether she is relevant as an arbitrator of cultural expression is another question entirely. She has taken a set of essays and parlayed them into a couple of books and stopped. Since then she has made a a career of being a guest, whether with rich people, who she admires A LOT. or the talk show circuit or even the occasional speaking engagement. ( yes i consider her "role" as Judge Janice as a guest visiting w rich person Dick Wolfe). ( supposedly she "suffers' from the worlds longest case of writer's block)The other people who's similar opinion you say she represents - 98% of them would not even know her name

Frankly, she always seemed like an Edith Sitwell wanna be but w less ability.

But that's just MY opinion.

@aaaaaa

re#1-implicitly yes. Otherwise how do you make sense of the opprobrium of Lebo?

re#2-you are trying to parse common conversation far too acutely. It's just like what my father said when I was a kid who wanted to do something and didn't get permission: "Everybody's doing it." "No, you are a part of everybody and you're not." It was silly then and it is silly now. Modest hyperbole is a quintessential part of diction and your " logic" is actually quite illogical.

I've been an avid Broadway attendee since 1972 when at the age of 7 I saw my first musical on Broadway: the original cast of PIPPIN. My love for Bob Fosse and his work began at this time.



Since then, I became obsessed with Broadway and spent all my summers in NYC from 1972 to the late 1980s. Then as an adult, I visited NYC every few months to see shows exclusively. Yes, I saw EVERYTHING. Countless original Broadway casts and many times flew up from Miami last-minute to catch a show that was quickly closing just to add it to my growing list of "I saw that."



Today I live and work in NYC. Sadly, I can no longer sit thru a Broadway musical. My interest in Broadway waned about 15 years ago. Due to my career, I frequently am offered comped tickets, which I politely decline. The last show I recall actually enjoying when they went into a song was the 2010 Broadway revival of PROMISES, PROMISES and IN THE HEIGHTS. For obvious reasons I accepted the tickets to HAMILTON. Out of respect to the arts, I sat thru the entire thing though I was tempted to leave midway thru Act 2.



I still follow Broadway thru these boards and the news so I'm fully aware of what's happening but I no longer venture to see a show. As every resident New Yorker, I avoid the Times Square area. Boy did I spend my childhood wandering around the theater district almost daily and sneaking into the open stage doors in the afternoons. I can't recall the last time I walked thru Shubert Alley.



It happens and I fully validate everyone's opinion on Musical Theater. It sho' ain't fo' everyone.

HogansHero said: "That's a non-sequitur: You said " Has anyone in this thread tried to deny that it's a common opinion?" to which I responded yes, at least implicitly."

Well I disagree, I don't think anyone has. I definitely disagree with what Fran is saying but I'm also well aware that it's a common train of thought.


" Again, a non-sequitur. The hyperbole I was discussing was not Lebo's characterization of the genre, but the common understanding of " everything." You said " if you like something(s) within the genre then you don't completely dislike the genre." And I am saying that the use of "everything" in that context is modest (and completely understood in our language) hyperbole."

Right. And if Fran had said 'You have to drag me to the theatre because I don't like musicals but I liked Hamilton' I may have rolled my eyes a bit but I wouldn't think she was being as ridiculous as she is being here. Charlie Rose pretty much said exactly said in his first feature on Hamilton and it didn't bother me anywhere near as much.

In a dream world, people wouldn't make ignorant statements and would actually put some nuance into what they're saying. I'm aware that that will never happen. Fran however takes it to a whole other level and that is what bothered me and many others in the thread.