Grey Gardens a Musical or a Play with music?

[TapTapTapioca]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 11:57pm

In the chartroom the other night Americanboy99 mentioned that he believed that Grey Gardens was a play with music. He also said that Mary Louise Wilson called it a play with music in a Broadway.com interview (http://www.broadway.com/Gen/Buzz_Video.aspx?ci=539903). Now I strongly believe that Grey Gardens is a musical but I could be wrong.

So it is a musical or a play with music?

[BroadwayEnthusiast2]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 11:59pm

I say it's a musical.

[Kungaloosh1937]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 11:59pm

The characters spontaneously break into song.

It is a musical.

[bjh2114]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:01am

It's a musical. Souvenir is a play with music. The History Boys is a play with music. Grey Gardens is a musical.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:10am

I was just pointing out that Mary Louise Wilson called it a play with music.

I do find that term a sort of grey term. I think it's an personal opinion what one would define as a play with music.

I think when the heart of a show is it's storyline and book, then, IMHO, it's a play with music (although, of course, there are many suggestions).

Like MAMMA MIA! and CURTAINS are definitely musicals, but, for me, GREY GARDENS (and possibly SPRING AWAKENING) are plays with music.


Tap has a little grudge against me, and when I brought up that MLW said this and that I happened to agree with her in the chatroom, he vehemently disagreed. But there it is in an interview. So, I happen to agree with her.

However, I am sure many don't agree with me. I think it's an opinion.

Updated On: 7/31/07 at 12:10 AM

[BroadwayEnthusiast2]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:14am

Spring Awakening is a play with music? Wait, what?

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:17am

For me, yeah, I would venture to call it a play with music. Especially for SPRING AWAKENING, where the songs are almost separate, yet still woven into, from the story.

The film CABARET pops into my mind as a, well, film with music. The storyline is very separate from the songs. Most characters don't sing a note.

[TapTapTapioca]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:22am

I really don't think that a musical or a play with music is a matter of opinion.

That is almost like me saying that a TV miniseries and a TV show is a matter of opinion.

Spring Awakening won Best Musical not Best Play.

[bjh2114]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:22am

Americanboy, with that logic though everything would be considered a play with music except for most jukebox musicals. That would leave like 10 "musicals" in the history of musical theatre.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:24am

Well, in my opinion, certain musicals can be classified as plays with music. I know I am definitely in the minority. But I find GREY GARDENS to be a great example, maybe not so much SPRING AWAKENING.

Take it up with MLW.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:24am

Frankly, I don't care.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:27am

This thread was just created because I PMd Tap the interview I was referring to, and he took it upon himself to create a thread to just try to prove me wrong.

But my opinion, and the opinion of MLW (one of the show's stars), are not changing.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:29am

You PMd it to me, which I did find odd. Personally, I think you are both nuts.

Is this because of that fight you two had about gay marriage?

[logan0215]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:29am

I think when the heart of a show is it's storyline and book

Every show's book should be the heart, the book is the strength of storyline and the music is the mode of telling that story.

By this logic, there would be no standards for "musicals" to have strong books to support the action.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:30am

Sorry, Kringas. I just kind of remembered you being in the chat room that night, and no one believed that she had said that.

[COOOOLkid]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:30am

It's a musical.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:31am

If the characters sing to each other, it's a musical. If there is music but no one is singing to each other to advance the plot -- then you have a play with music.

The film-version of CABARET is a film with music. It's NOT a musical. The musical numbers ONLY take place on the stage of the Kit Kat Klub. Though the numbers performed do indeed reflect and and counterpoint the plot, none of the songs are sung to other characters...they are performance songs at the Kit Kat Klub. The stage-version on the other hand, IS a musical as the characters sing to each other.

SOUVENIR -- play with music. MASTER CLASS -- play with music. THE SOUND OF MUSIC -- musical. WEST SIDE STORY -- musical. GREY GARDENS -- musical. RENT -- musical.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:32am

I am not saying it isn't a musical.

IMHO, a show can be a musical and a play with music.

Again, take it up with MLW. It's just my opinion.

[TapTapTapioca]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:33am

Kringas- This has nothing to do with the fact that I got in an argument with him because he does not believe in gay marriage. If it was I would start a thread on that.

[C is for Company]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:33am

Correction: I believe that she said that, as did others. We just think she is wrong, it is a musical. People onstage with a score and bursting out into well over a dozen songs with dialogue interspersed? If it isn't a musical then what the hell would it be?

Updated On: 7/31/07 at 12:33 AM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:35am

Here's a thread which could shed some interesting light on this topic:


A Play With Music

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:06am

Okay. I'll just try to explain myself once and for all. (I've never had a thread completely pinned against me!) I know pretty much all of you will disagree, but here goes!

Well, for me, the term "musical" entails certain glitzy aspects that have become sterotypes (lots of dancing, random singing, showy costumes, etc.) These stereotypes have become part of many Americans opinions, although I do understand that not all musicals are like that. In fact, I would first call GREY GARDENS a musical, but then, comment that it can be seen as a play with music. Some musicals are far from that flashy stereotype that the world entails, and GREY GARDENS is definitely one of them. It's a dramatic musical that is certainly helped with a great score, but grounded by its book. It certainly isn't showy in that "Broadway musical" way. It's a genuine piece of theatre that could stand alone without music and still be equally as moving. However, I wouldn't say the same for most musicals. I mentioned SPRING AWAKENING because it is based on such a wonderful piece of theatre that happens to be a straight play. I have read SPRING'S AWAKENING and find it to be remarkably moving. I have watched and read about the Bouvier's and know that GREY GARDENS could work seamlessly without any book songs. However, most musicals would suffer without songs. THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA would seem bare. SPAMALOT would seem like a copy-cat. THE SOUND OF MUSIC would be missing its heart. CURTAINS would be missing its fun. WICKED would be missing its liveliness. HAIRSPRAY would be fun, but nowhere near as joyous. Those are just a few examples. However, GREY GARDENS would still be moving and touching. SPRING AWAKENING would still be racy and exciting, as displayed by it's straight play counterpart.

My definition of a play with music is most definitely different from the "correct" term that is used by most people. But, for me, some musicals emerge as plays with music or musicals that could stand alone as straight plays and really lose very little.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:06am

Sorry. Double post.

Updated On: 7/31/07 at 01:06 AM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:10am

But regardless, if you were to take away the score of GREY GARDENS, you would lose several songs that propel the plot forward. And the show would suffer because of it.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 7/31/07 at 1:11am

Well, of course, some adjustments would have to be made for the book songs, but as a whole, the book of GREY GARDENS plus a few alterations would make an equally amazing show. IMHO.

Goodnight!