How did SOUTH win 'Scenic Design' over SITPWG???- Page 2

[Mekroth]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 1:53am

South did have damn nice sets.

However, I think Sunday should have been given this award.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 7:46am

Besides, for those of us who saw the original Sunday in the Park, that set was so much more beautiful than the set of this revival.

The projections are fun to watch, but you could see them at a Disney them park exhibit or a natural-history museum. They are not intrinsically OF the theater. They are, essentially, nothing more than a clever gimmick.

The award was appropriate.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 8:02am

I loved the set of South Pacific, and the lighting. Everything was brilliantly colored.

However, no set served more to 'illustrate' the theme than Sunday, and it should have won for that.

Just another case of Tony voters voting their favorite show across the board in every non-acting category. What credentials do you need to be a Tony voter again? I think I look at things more intricately than they do.

[scooter38432]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 8:24am

I'm so relieved to see that so many others feel the same way I do.

I just returned from seeing 3 shows this weekend: SOUTH PACIFIC, GYPSY and SUNDAY IN THE PARK.

SITPWG was BY FAR the most effective, thrilling and moving production of them all. How it went home empty-handed is beyond me. I was so moved by this show. It's so sad that it's closing soon.

If you haven't seen it yet. Get yourself to Studio 54, pronto!

[Roscoe]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 8:59am

I thought SOUTH PACIFIC's set design was infinitely more interesting and effective than the glorified Powerpoint presentation on display in SUNDAY IN THE PARK.

Yeah, yeah, SUNDAY's flashing lights and animated dogs were cute, but they got to be too cute after a while, becoming an end in themselves rather than a means to an end.

[SirNotAppearing]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 9:08am

Voters LOVE to have one show sweep the design awards, and since they obviously loved SP to death, they threw them this one too.

Shameful.

[Tom1071]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 9:25am

Perhaps because it has an amazing physical set that someone took the time to design and carpenters had to actually build and not projections.
Updated On: 6/16/08 at 09:25 AM

[nonplussed]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 9:55am

Do you really think that no time or effort went into the set design of Sunday? I would think that far more months, even years of work went into the creation of the animated projections and the physical set (yes there was an actual physical set) by many talented creatives from various disciplines. You really have no idea!

[H.Higgins]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 10:03am

-- "Perhaps because it has an amazing physical set that someone took the time to design and carpenters had to actually build and not projections."

Oh, okay. So now we're going to knock top-quality, perfectly-executed, and ground-breaking artistic work because it was painstakingly labored over using electronics and lenses, rather than with a hammer and nails? That's extraordinarily ignorant.

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 10:10am

I agree with PalJoey that SOUTH PACIFIC deserved this award. The set was stunning.

[Patash]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 10:13am

Those who can't get it into their heads that the projections ARE set design, must not be in favor of any changes or innovations in theatre. Hey folks, someone does a "new" type of set design and instead of embracing it, you just say "that doesn't fit my old-fashioned idea of what a set design is supposed to be"?

I'd agree that probably more voters saw South Pacific than Sunday in the Park. Doesn't Lincoln Center Theatre go out of their way to make sure the voters all see their productions? I've been told they do -- including one voter who says they nearly drive him crazy with the calls and emails reminding him even after he's seen it.

[WestVillage]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 10:30am

I hated the projections in Sunday ... thought they were tacky. Perhaps the Tony voters felt the same way. SP, on the other hand, had breathtaking sets and deservedly won the award. Personally, I am glad Sunday went home empty. That's exactly how I felt when I left Sunday ... empty. A huge bore.

[MuseOfComedy]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:00am

haha. wow, Roscoe really doesn't like Sunday...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:09am

This thread is hilarious. I love the conspiracy theories that spew forth every time an award is given that someone doesn't agree with. I can only imagine what would have been said if Patti hadn't won.

But obviously, the anonymous members of BWW know so much more about theatre than the Tony voters. Someone call the American Theatre Wing!

[lowercaseletter]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:16am

I too was very surprised. This seemed to be a lock for Sunday (as it was back in the 80s). It's sad that such a glorious production was completely shut out.

I've yet to see SP, so I can't comment on which show deserved the award more. Ultimately, I'm glad Sunday was revived well and was very well received.

[Patash]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:19am

lowercaseletter says, "I've yet to see SP, so I can't comment on which show deserved the award more."

So why should that stop you from commenting? Not seeing the show didn't stop a lot of voters from voting.

LOL

[lowercaseletter]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:25am

now i know why i'm not a Tony voter. :)

[H.Higgins]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:27am

-- "This thread is hilarious. I love the conspiracy theories that spew forth every time an award is given that someone doesn't agree with."


Where the hell did anyone state any "conspiracy theories"?

South Pacific's scenic design won. Period. Meaning: it got the most votes.

I don't think anyone is arguing that process. At least, I'm not. What I am saying, however, is that I disagree with the majority of the voters for this category. And there is plenty of merit for that disagreement, besides the fact that it's an entitled opinion.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:42am

"Perhaps because it has an amazing physical set that someone took the time to design and carpenters had to actually build and not projections."

You are the biggest dumbass I have ever met. This is coming from a scenic designer, who knows how hard it is to both draft a large set, and yet thinks projections are just as innovative. Obviously you have no design experience. The purpose of a scenic design is to serve the story. It's not about which design looks prettier, it's about creating a design to serve the plot. If it doesn't, then it's frankly not a good design. I don't care how pretty certain designs may look, but when it comes down to the whole reason for creating the set, many designs fail. South Pacific's set served it's story greatly, but Sunday in the Park with George's set became just as much of a key point in the show as the actors did. That is when a design is effective.

To say projections, and not a largely built set, do not take time and effort is more than ignorant. It shows a lack of mental capacity. To use projections, and to use them effectively, is extremely complicated and contains a very fine line. It takes time and effort to create the projections, they don't just pop up out of nowhere. To use a minimalist design (which is often times more effective than a grand and flashy design) is extremely complicated. To set the story in a room (so to speak) and transform the room through two different time periods is brilliant. Sure it's been done before, but to show how close the situations were by setting the story in one room, but transforming the room into the environment of the time period through projections shows another level of design. Projections usually are not the scenic design, but are used to enhance it. In this show, projections are the scenic design and the actual built scenic elements are used to enhance it.

I am happy that South Pacific won, as it did have a great design. Both designs are incredible, and both deserved to win. However, to say no time or effort was put into a design because it is minimalist and does not use elaborate built sets, is preposterous and shows the true ignorance of many theatre goers and voters. It may not be until someone understands the process that any designer goes through (no matter what the design consists of), that they will understand how challenging it can be.

I am in the process of designing for 'The Shadow Box'. The design contains both a large physical set and projections, and let me say that it is harder to bring the projections to life.

Updated On: 6/16/08 at 11:42 AM

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 11:52am

"He's not my friend. He DOES UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROJECTIONS ARE CONSIDERED SET DESIGN READ AGAIN."

I don't mean to bring this into the light again, but I understand what ljay is saying, I think.

CatsNY understands that the projections were CONSIDERED for set design; however, I think the fact that Cats mentioned he himself does not consider the projections set design threw everyone else off when he mentioned "they are not set design." His opinion differs from what the Tony committee saw.

Anyways, I have seen neither South Pacific nor Sunday, so I cannot fairly comment on which show should have won, but I do believe it was a popularity contest, and South Pacific is the more popular of the two. Unfortunately (stating the obvious) that's how it is sometimes with the Tonys.

Updated On: 6/16/08 at 11:52 AM

[tazber]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 12:00pm

I think it's clear that there is a cabal of influential and secretive people who rig these awards. They are the same group who fix the Oscars, and that fixed the presidential election in 2000.
Apparently, the R&H foundation paid them more than the producers of SITWG.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 12:20pm

Perhaps remembering the mean average age of Tony voters will show how South Pacific could win.

Also (as I didn't see it) were the projections rear or front projected or is it actually some form or LCDs? Just curious...

[Patash]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 12:24pm

Most comments seem to relate only to Act I of Sunday in the Park. One thing the projections did that the original set did not do was to use "light" as one of the major artistic elements. And that light was carried forth to the main element of Act II as well. I thought the two acts related so much better because of that (as well as the rear projection imitating the Park image in its own way) than the original production ever did.
I think it was "brilliant" scenic design.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 12:28pm

This is one of my favorite threads ever.

Who knew a set could be such a diva and have such fierce fans?

But Michael Yeargan deserved his Tony.

[achangeinme]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 12:33pm

Ugh, Sunday was robbed. I knew that it wouldn't never win Best Revival, but I also never would have thought it would have walked away without anything! I really thought they had Scenic Design in the bag. Them losing this to SP really was my biggest dissapointment last night.