How long before you aren't a flop?

[willact4food]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:04pm

How long does a show need to run before it can be considered a flop? For instance, obviously Lennon would be considered a flop, as they have been playing either less than or a little more than a month, and we are all pretty sure it's going to close soon. But would All Shook Up be considered a flop? I opened in March, 6 months ago. I, personally, don't think ASU should be considered a flop, but that's just me...

What do you guys think?

Brandon

[whatyouown223]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:05pm

If the show does not recoup its inital investment, then it is a flop.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:05pm

ASU will be considered a flop..

because it hasn't made back it's original investment, and hasn't made profit.

[WonderBoy]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:06pm

Well, there is a financial flop and a critical flop.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:21pm

There are "flops" and "hits" and there are "successes" and "failures."

"Flops" and "Hits" are purely objective financial terms having to do with a show paying back its original investment. If a show fails to recoup, it is a "flop" no matter how great it is or how long it runs (some flops have run 4 to 5 years and never managed to turn a profit). "Hits" return their investments. Period.

"Successes" and "Failures" are purely subjective assessments of a show's value critically and artistically. There are plenty of hits that I would consider artistic failures and plenty of flops that were artistically successful. Most of Sondheim shows come to mind as examples of the latter -- I actually got this distinction between "flop" and "success" etc.... from 20 time Tony winner Hal Prince. He called most of the Sondheim shows he produced and directed "successes" -- they were what he and Sondheim wanted them to be -- but, he was also clear that most of them were flops (Company and Little Night Music turned a profit; Sweeney closed as a flop, but over a decade later, according to Prince, it FINALLY paid back its original investment so it can now be termed a "hit)."

[CastAlbumFan]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:34pm

SWEENEY finally turned a profit?! YES!!!

That has to be a record for the longest time a musical took to return a profit!

[mikem]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:41pm

Does anyone have a guess (or know) what the longest Broadway run would be that didn't recoup? I know that Millie ran for over 2 years and didn't recoup, and I believe that Jekyll & Hyde's run for 3 and a half years (and over 1500 performances!) also closed at a loss.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:48pm

if making the money back after closing counts then Jekyll & Hyde was not a flop because it did make it's investment back after it closed. I remember reading that it made back it's initial investment finally through foreign productions and regional rights... I could be wrong... Updated On: 9/7/05 at 06:48 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/7/05 at 6:48pm

Yeah, Prince said in an interview that Sweeney FINALLY broke even just a couple of years ago. I can't remind the exact timing of his comments, but I think we're talking just a couple of years ago, so, if that's true it took 20+ years to recoup. Wow.

The recently closed 42nd Street revival ran 1524 performances (over three and a half years) and never recouped (weekly running costs for that enormous cast were just too high).

Jekyll & Hyde ran 1543 performances and lost millions -- that might be the record.