"Howard" on Disney Plus — Page 2

xtzg said: "2) Some years ago (I think in the 2000s or early 2010s) there was an article about Ashman, and the author, who interviewed his partner, wrote that he was living alone in that house. I don't know about now, but it's not something that the public needs to know. His partner did show up when Little Shop of Horrors opened off-broadway last year."



I totally agree that it's not something we're entitled to know. It's just something I was wondering as I watched. Hope he's happy after dealing with that tragedy.

Finally watched it last night...what a TREASURE this man was and this film is a treat. It's bad enough his life was cut so short, but it kills me that he didn't get to see the final product of his magnum opus that is B and the B, and what a staple it would become in the Disney canon. And when I sat down to think about it, it actually shocked me that Aladdin is as seamless as it is since Menken had to hunt for a new lyricist for the other songs Howard didn't write. Rice may not be known for his witticisms, but it worked. And frankly if I didn't already know who wrote the lyrics for which song, I wouldn't have been able to tell who wrote what or even that it was two lyricists. It's THAT seamless.

And my lands, thank goodness that man put his foot down when the powers that be wanted to cut f-in part.of.your.world. This man not only knew how to write and use text cleverly, but knew story structure and how each song fits into the overall arc/narrative. This is sorely lacking in current musical theatre writing, and I just want to resurrect the man so he can teach this skill. I also have an alternate universe in my head where he's still alive and it was him and Menken who write for a Disney adaptation of the Snow Queen instead. And it was WAY better...I said what I said.

CATSNYrevival said: "I'd love to see Smile at Encores!"

THIS. And a cast recording of it! Since an OBC doesn't actually exist, which is crime... I still want an OBC just to hear Jodi sing Disneyland over and over again.

Kad said: "After they did Rosewater for Off-Center a few years ago, I’d be surprised if Smile wasn’t on their shortlist."

I would have thought so but Rosewater was in 2016. They're taking their time with Smile.

JennH said: "And when I sat down to think about it, it actually shocked me that Aladdin is as seamless as it is since Menken had to hunt for a new lyricist for the othersongs Howard didn't write. Rice may not be known for his witticisms, but it worked. And frankly if I didn't already know who wrote the lyrics for which song, I wouldn't have been able to tell who wrote what or even that itwas two lyricists. It's THAT seamless.

And my lands, thank goodness that man put his foot down when the powers that be wanted to cut f-in part.of.your.world. This man not only knew how to write and use text cleverly, but knew story structure and how each song fitsinto the overall arc/narrative. This is sorely lacking in current musical theatre writing, and I just want to resurrect the man so he can teach this skill. I also have an alternate universe in my head where he's still alive and it was him and Menken who write for a Disney adaptation of theSnow Queen instead. And it was WAY better...I said what I said."



I also think Rice did really admirable work with Aladdin. He and Menken worked extremely effectively giving the circumstances. That said, weirdly I always felt there were more than one lyricist involved in Aladdin. If I try to rationalize it, I guess Ashman's work has a sense of sincerity and simplicity (even with all the wittiness) which to me is quite distinct. He was the master of writing with purpose and economy.

Ashman was adamant that they could not cut Part of the World, but it took more than one person to successfully keep that song. Glen Keane, the animator in charge of Ariel, also fought for the song, and eventually convinced Katzenberg to give it another chance.

I'm also curious what Ashman's Snow Queen was like.

Bravo to Don Hahn, the director and writer of ''Howard.'' As the Oscar-nominated producer of ''Beauty and the Beast,'' he surely knew his subject, and made such a touching tribute. In other hands, ''Howard'' could've been a more formulaic film full of celebrity talking heads and just concentrated on his Disney animated movies. But Hahn has dug up a lot of audiotapes of Ashman, often allowing him to tell his own story. Hahn also spends time showing how Ashman was a born storyteller as a boy and shares the highs (''Little Shop of Horrors'' ) and lows (''Smile'' ) of his life in the theater.

Plus, ''Howard'' is refreshingly forthright in depicting Ashman's story and struggles as a terrifically talented gay artist dealing with AIDS. It covers his relationship with Stuart White, his college boyfriend, and Bill Lauch, his surviving partner who movingly accepted Ashman's Oscar for ''Beauty and the Beast'' on his behalf. (Glad to see this LGBT story on Disney Plus, but it's puzzling why this channel couldn't also host ''Love, Victor,'' an acclaimed and clean-cut series about a gay teen; instead, Disney Plus shifted this ''Love, Simon'' spinoff to Hulu, where it became a hit and was just renewed.)

Updated On: 8/10/20 at 07:24 PM

It's a wonderful, wonderful documentary. I didn't mind that there weren't "talking heads" (that was Don Hahn's style for Waking Sleeping Beauty, too) but the stock b-roll footage REALLY annoyed me. But it still didn't take away from the beauty of his work.

Regarding Love Victor, the Disney + “rules” clashed with that one due to some teen drinking, partying, etc. It’s one of their no-no’s supposedly. Didn’t stop a chunk of tiresome social media voices from calling for Disney’s head on a platter over perceived corporate homophobia and cowardice. (Yawn)

Updated On: 8/10/20 at 10:07 PM

Kad said: "I did kind of have to roll my eyes at the clips of the live action remakes of Beauty of the Beast and Aladdin closing it out, which seemed like a Disney executive decision despite the existence of those remakes seeming like something Ashman would've fought against."

Cringey to me too... Can’t imagine Ashman sitting in on the auto-tune sessions for poor Emma Watson’s vocals. Yikes. But, as a lot of the doc was about his lasting legacy, might have seemed off not at least mentioning something like the $1 billion+ grossing BatB remake. (Didn’t need to show so much though.)

Updated On: 8/11/20 at 10:11 PM

I think I also learned Alan Menken is only as good as his lyricist.

It's so clear Howard Ashman ran the show in their partnership and for the better.

As well as Howard Ashman was an ideas man like Walt Disney.

I am almost certain that one of the other great devastations of losing Howard is he could've SAVED sooo many of those weaker Disney Renaissance films that came out after Lion King.

Imagine his hand in Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules and Tarzan for example.

All charming but flawed Disney films that had strong potential to be as great as Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

"I think I also learned Alan Menken is only as good as his lyricist.

YEEES. I think the only person he's worked with that one could say matches Howard in terms of story and character and craft is Stephen Schwartz, and even he's no Ashman.

Imagine his hand in Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules and Tarzan for example.

I often think about this. As much as I like the scores to POCAHONTAS and HUNCHBACK (I feel that Menken's strongest underscore is HUNCHBACK, and that he deserved a ninth Oscar for it), I think as animated family entertainments, they're mistakes. Yes, animation isn't just kiddie stuff-- certainly MERMAID and BEAUTY (or SNOW WHITE, PINOCCHIO, et al) aren't-- but there's a certainly levity and fantasy necessary for animation, and those elements tacked onto those respective stories aren't necessary. That's why I think HUNCHBACK works so much better as a stage piece-- without the cutesy gargoyles! So I wonder if Howard would have said, "Yeah, maybe Victor Hugo works for the stage in something like LES MISERABLES, but as an animated musical? Think it over guys."

I also think the corporate infighting and loss of Jeffery Katzenberg as an ally and someone to have good, strong creative arguments with would have pushed Howard (and more than likely Alan) to come back to the theatre and spend less time at Disney, and go back and forth between film and stage, as Stephen Schwartz has done pretty consistently, and as Menken started to do in the mid 2000s.

But who knows? Maybe Howard would have become a Disney film executive? He certainly had influence and respect from the top brass. Roy E. Disney's comment is quite remarkable. It was remarkable to hear in WAKING SLEEPING BEAUTY, and it still is in this film. Maybe he would have thought HUNCHBACK was a great idea. Animation IS art. Walt Disney intended it to be-- which pissed a lot of pretentious people off (i.e. FANTASIA).

Certainly, we missed out on a special career, and a man who could nurture and mentor a new generation of artists. He seemed to have that pontifical gene in him, too.

I think Menken gets purer when he talks about Howard. I think he sometimes can become glib "Alan Meken, the 8-time Oscar winner" in public forums, but not when he discusses Howard. Which is really, as stated, quite touching. He hasn't lost touch with his roots.

"