I don't get why when Patti sings, she

Has her jaw vibrate...I love her. But does anyone else think that her vibratto is way too much?

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I was wondering what the LuPone freaks would have to bitch about next

But after years of professional vocal training, couldn't that have been solved?

It most certainly could be fixed. Miss LuPone has had a LOT of vocal trouble, especially in Evita. It's because on top of being such a challenging score, she wasn't singing it properly.

Hopefully her voice holds up for Mama Rose. You don't need to belt EVERYTHING.


I doubt she could sing Rainbow High like she could 30 years ago.

Who said there was a problem? Is someone asks why the sky is blue, it doesn't mean they're saying, "ew, the sky is blue! Why?! I have such a problem with it."

Let's be careful, folks. Talking about vocal technique and vibrato is dangerous since incorrect facts abound.

Vibrato is not actually a natural occurance. It is an affect placed onto a note to add color.

Take a cello for example. The vibration of the strings causes pitch but no vibrato. The player needs to "force" the vibrato by moving the string back and forth on the finger board. The same goes for the voice. Natural virbation of the vocal folds is what gives a note pitch. It is the addition of a secondary vibration that causes the virbato to come into existance. Classical singers (and I'm one of them) have simply come to believe that it is natural. This is a falsehood, however. Vibrato may help to keep the vocalis (vocal apparatus) "free" and "relaxed" but it is not something that happens without the interference of other muscles.

The same is true of any instrument that uses vibration of strings or even the manipulation of air to make sound. Pianos have no vibrato, violins have vibrato only when it is manufactored - the flute and other wind instruments have no vibrato unless it is added in by the player.

Interstingly enough - vibrato in instruments became much more prevalent when singers in the "modern era" (not an official term) began using more vibrato.

As for Patty - a shaking of the jaw is a sign of Jaw tension. If her vibrato were caused by tension it would most likely be noticed under the jaw as a pressing down of the tongue onto the larynx - which i think is what TotalyEffed was trying to say.

Yes, this could be worked out early on in her developement, but when you've got a voice and a career like her's, why bother? Besides, I think her vocal quirks and personality have aided in building her diva persona.

The pitch that comes out of your mouth is rooted in the bernoulli effect - an interaction of pressure and the same principle that causes lift in the wings of an airplane.
The movement of the chords produces pitch...not vibrato.

This isn't something I'm pulling out of my butt, Effed. I'm not some jerk who is throwing junk out there. I have two degrees in music and have studied vocal pedagogy for years (yes...I'm confirming that I'm a complete tool). And please, I'm not self-aggrandizing. I'm just covering my bases.

In any event, you can draw parallels between celli and the voice because they both create pitch via vibration and thus deal with many of the same principles of physics.
I threw the flute in there to point out that wind instruments deal with the same principles.

If this turns into a message board fight it will officially be the dorkiest thing in existance. lol. I apologize to all.

The fact that you're comparing the voice to instruments is ridiculous. I simply cannot believe you would consider yourself a singer and claim that vibrato is not natural.

But let me clarify. I never said that using vibrato wasn't healthy. I said that it was not a natural function of the voice.

Singing straight tone with high breath pressure can cause damage and using vibrato can relieve some of that tension by freeing things up. This doesn't make it something our bodies do without interference, however. It doesn't mean that virbato isn't fundamentally manufactered.

Funny how vibrato wasn't used all the time in early music. Pre common practice singers used vibrato exclusively as a decoration like a trill or an appaggiatura. It wasn't until later that it was adopted as a standard for "healthy" vocal production. Perhaps this was connected to the need for further freedom when our tenors started popping out high B's in all-out chest. :)

And trust me, Effed...I know that this is a really controversial topic. Vocal science always has been that way since we know so little about what actually happens to produce the sounds that we produce.

What's vocal pedagogy?

Sounds dirty.

You're right figaro.
Soooo many points of view. Eventually you just have to agree to disagree.

Vocal Ped is the art and science of teaching voice.

"Raul Esperanza

I LOVE YOU!

His name is actually Raul Esparza. "

=-) Excuse my spelling!

Well, effed. I think we just sit on opposite ends of the specrum. As figaro said, there are thousands of schools of voice and they all share one thing in common - none of them is certain or definitive.

I LOVE the challenging conversation that comes of this kind of thread and wish BWW would have more intelligent conversation about theater and the arts. It's fun to be challenged and taken to task.

If you're in NYC, effed or anyone for that matter, you might be interested in taking a class with a guy named Aaron Hagan. He's a vocal coach and teacher who keeps himself on the forefront of vocal science. You'd agree with some of what he says and disagree with other stuff (I did) but you might find it interesting.

Also, Westminster Choir college (I didn't go there...so this isn't a plug) has an amazing vocal ped department with a state-of-the art research center. Another good place to get new information on the voice.

Thanks!