Is Wildhorn that bad?- Page 4

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:09pm

hey, yonah, who are you on the forum? PM me if you want.


The more I listen to it, the more I like the music. I still can't believe Tom's favorite song is Modern World. I see where he's coming from, the song was def. a good idea, I just think the lyrics are terrible.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:10pm

Ah, the day my classes started...

Sorry spider, I was just making a point.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:12pm

It is ok. Carry on....

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:13pm

HA...

Would it absolutely kill you if I said I liked Dracula more than POTO...well, I liked every show I have ever seen (but one) more than POTO...

Dracula is also in the middle of my list...

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:16pm

YES!!! **Dies**

We are soooo going off topic here but:

No, I don't care. I just don't understand how people prefer PHANTOM over POTO.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:16pm

No, I don't care. I just don't understand how people prefer PHANTOM over POTO.

- What?

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:19pm

the YESTON version over the WEBBER version. Sorry for the confusion.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:22pm

Oh, gotcha.

I think I saw both...it was a while ago and I saw it at a lcoal college. It wasn't ALW's version, so...

I just HATE the music. It's so boring and repeats over and over taking away any special meaning the songs should have. Not to mention the lyrics are not much better (thought they are slightly better) than the lyrics in J&H....

I do love the phantom of the opera theme...when the chandalier lights up, etc...it is actually one of my favorite Broadway tunes EVER - yeah, go figure.

I also don't really like the POTO story...

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:24pm

Ah Well. To be honest, I don't care if people like it or not. I just feel like saying things sometimes. I like both versions but the YESTON version is SO far away from the plot of the book and the music is, for lack of a better word, so "Disneyfied." But, you like what you like and don't like what you don't like. That's what makes the world go around.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 7:26pm

True,

Although I don't even remember in the show I saw...but as I said, it was LONG ago...

I just remember leaving and thinking "WOOP!"

When I left POTO I was thinking, "Zzzz"

[WildhornFanatic]

Posted: 2/17/05 at 12:14am

CatsNYRevival - If you read my post, I said "I think the best song in DRACULA, musically, is BEFORE THE SUMMER ENDS. But I hate the lyrics that typed out. I think they are elementary and boring.

"To catch a butterfly and tear off it's wings.
It's worse than all of these things."

EW.

- Michael

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:32am

This thread inspired me to go back and listen to Scarlet Pimpernel OBC and remember what it was about the show and its score that I felt worked so well for me and to try and understand some of the opposing comments made in this thread.

"Then he needs to find a lyricist that can work his way so that the music and the lyrics match."

"I think he is a great pop song writer. That doesn't mean he is a good musical writer."

"The music isn't bad, just familiar and generic. All the dots are connected, but without a singular voice."

"He writes songs with no idea where the songs fit into a musical and does not take into account character. Good songs, but they don't belong to a particular setting or character. That is why so much of what he writes ends up cut - it just doesn't fit."

OK, let's take a look at the score:

Pop ballads:

Only Love
Falcon in the Dive
Where's the Girl?
You Are My Home

Non-pop ballads:

Believe
Prayer
When I Look at You
Lullaby
She Was There
Storybook

Non-pop:

Into the Fire
They Seek Him Here
The Scarlet Pimpernel
Madame Guillotine
The Riddle
The Creation of Man
Vivez!

While some of the ballads may have pop-ish orchestrations, they are not necessarily pop in structure. In my opinion, the majority of the score is not really pop at all (meaning it does not have a modern commercial sound and not structured in a formulaic pop style). The music itself for nearly all of the non-pop score does indeed match the style of the story and sound specifically composed for it as do the lyrics. Specifically They Seek Him Here (composed directly for the poem in the original novel and Nan brilliantly expanded using the same tone of the author), The Scarlet Pimpernel, The Creation of Man, and Madame Guillotine. Vivez! and The Riddle provides melodies that fit perfectly into their setting and emotions. Into the Fire is a wonderful piece appropriately invoking a sense swashbuckling adventure. Storybook is a performance by a former Parisienne cabaret singer.

Regarding the non-pop ballads, take away the orchestrations and they could easily fit into others shows with a more classic and traditional structure. The pop ballads are far more interchangeable, but again, why is this a detriment to Wildhorn, but not to Gershwin, Berlin, Copland or Kern whose music was considered "pop" of its period and just as easily nonspecific and interchangeable?

As for the lyrics, listen to When I Look at You, which is a story in itself of a woman who so desperately longs for the husband she once knew and fell in love with. It so perfectly describes her character and allows the audience to sympathize with the character and the motives for her actions later in the show. Believe, Prayer, and She Was There are melodramatic romantic ballads - exactly like the novel itself. The Scarlet Pimpernel and Creation of Man are intricate, intelligent and witty. Vivez! is a European waltz that sums up the entire philosophy of the character.

"He may write a decent pop melody once in a while - but the lyrics (no matter who he writes with) are always horrifically bad from an acting viewpoint."

I would agree with that for some of the pop songs such as You Are My Home (totally out of place in the show) and Where's the Girl (the cut song Marguerite was a better fit for the character's persona and motivations), but I would strongly argue against that for the majority of the show because in context of the show, the songs fit well. The best example is It's Only Love. While it could easily be a pop ballad on its own, in context of the scene, the song had so much desperation and tension, it was heart wrenching. Marguerite is openly confessing her love for this man she believes is not her husband and begging him to do the same. For him to hear this incredible display of love and affection is both wonderful and devastating as he cannot reveal that he is her husband at all and it was absolutely heartbreaking to watch these two lovers in so much turmoil simply to love each other as they have always wished. Though it may sound melodramatic (which, in an adventure/romance novel, it is), It didn't go over-the-top. The emotions were played for truth, not for tears, and it worked.

Everything I refer to was in the first Broadway production. I saw the third version and found it to be weaker in structure and score, but still a good show. I am still amazed that it did not fare better on Broadway. I would go back to the original version, replace You Are My Home with a ballad more suitable for the period and setting, and replace Where's the Girl with Marguerite or a new song that does not portray Chauvelin as a scorned romantic rival, but as the selfish rogue who is more concerned with winning a prize than winning Marguerite's love.