Javier Munoz Will Be Alternate in HAMILTON on Broadway- Page 5

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 2:03am

I think most people here understand disappointment. A lot of people have posted reasons people should not be disappointed, some going so far as to say such disappointment is, for one reason or another, misguided. What people have been severely criticized for is something else entirely-the ridiculous outrage that has been expressed by some (but not all) of the disappointees and, in particular, the sense of entitlement in which that outrage is cloaked. It is that which engenders the justifiably strident criticism of that notion (a notion that permeates some quarters in here repeatedly).

[binau]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 4:14am

"Simple fact of the matter is NO ONE'S name is over the title. The Theater, Box Office, The Producers, Ticket Master do not owe you anything. You took your chances when you bought your tickets."

I do find that whole "name above the title" thing a bit silly. Shows clearly can and do sell tickets based on cast members regardless of whether they are above the title or not. It works when it is convenient for the show to advertise a star below the title, but of course as soon as it is not convenient for them (i.e., when they stand to lose money) they can stand behind this arbitrary 'rule'. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:41am

I agree.  Being disappointed, is understandable. Trying to change tix is understandable. It's the whining about the production being underhanded about it and demanding they do the "right" thing is what has gotten all the attention. Oh. And attacking those explaining that.

[anmiller07]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 9:01am

Also throwing my name out there for ANYONE that would like to get rid of tickets to performances featuring Javi.

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 9:01am

I don't think many people on here are willing to buy my tickets at the moment. They're for March 2016 and I'd be selling them for what I paid - $167 each. I don't think anyone on stub hub will buy them yet either - being that it's for a performance that isn't until March AND, being that Lin is now not going to be there. I honestly think it will be a hard sell. I'll most likely end up going after all but, getting rid of these tickets won't be so easy if no one's willing to buy and /or the production won't take them back. People say they're willing to buy on here, but, I think they're willing to buy if the price is right and if it's early on in the run.

I think if people were in the same situation as us who have tickets for that date, they would feel similarly. I don't see many posts on here where people have tickets for a performance Lin is out that are happy about it. There's maybe one or two who are happy about having tickets for a performance Lin is out. 

I do not believe the production held this information purposefully but, it would be nice if they honored exchanges or at least gave people a refund. I haven't seen it, but, being able to see the creator of his own show in his show has got to be something pretty special and I'd be sad to miss it. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 9:07am

Aren't people here saying they'd gladly take them? I figured they meant for free.

[anmiller07]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 9:41am

Hairspray0901, how many tickets do you have?

[dubs3535]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 10:34am

Hey y'all, just hopped on here to say why I was upset to learn I'd miss Lin at the Saturday matinee in August for which I had tickets.

 

Call it admiration, respect, or "star worship" (as referenced by a previous commenter). Whatever you call it, I have been following Lin's career for a while. I saw "In the Heights" in previews and was impressed by his humility at the stage door. I went to see "Bring It On" and got up the nerve to talk to him when I saw him in the audience. I wanted to tell him how much we liked his show, and he could not have been more gracious.

 

And now I've been following his work on "Hamilton" for years through his Twitter updates. Finally, I bought tickets for the earliest show I could see.

 

To think that I wouldn't see him in the role he created and poured so much passion into was unacceptable. I have listed my tickets on StubHub and purchased a pair for a different show.

 

It's his show. I'm flying from Texas specifically to see him, and now I will!

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 11:25am

See what everyone could learn?  The above poster took care of the problem himself.  No more problem.

 

Hairspray - have you even considered the possibility that Lin might not stay with the show through March?  And if he does, the alternate schedule cod change by then.  Several times, too. 

[BonnieBanks]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 11:46am

See what everyone could learn?  The above poster took care of the problem himself.  No more problem.

 

And what makes you think others have not? I can't speak for anyone else, but I  ALSO am handling it. Just because I don't announce it on this board, does not mean the situation is not being taken care of. Assumptions are never wise.

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 12:04pm

" Hairspray - have you even considered the possibility that Lin might not stay with the show through March?  And if he does, the alternate schedule cod change by then.  Several times, too. "

Valid point. Thanks for bringing that up. 

[macnyc]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 12:09pm

I would be more upset if Daveed Diggs or Renee Elise Goldsberry called out!

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 12:18pm

I don't think anybody is begrudging people being disappointed? But there's a difference between being bummed out and talking about how you've been wronged and the entire thing was "shady". Because it wasn't. They literally have 0 obligation to warn people about this beyond providing the requisite signs + slips the day of the performance. This was a courtesy. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 12:31pm

@golbinau--

1.  There is no "rule" relating to above the title. The only "rule" is the one on the ticket, which forms a part of the contract between buyer and seller, which states very explicitly that there are NO refunds or exchanges.

2.  A producer, or even a box office, can and often does provide flexibility, either according to custom (e.g., above the title, snowstorm, etc etc) or because it does not matter. So if a box office is sitting on 500 tickets for every show next week, they will likely exchange tickets for just about any reason unless the person at the window gives them a reason not to. But when a show is essentially sold out for 6 months in advance, even if a box office feels bad for you, they know that there are no exchanges with which kvetchers are going to be happy.

3. You assume someone is above the title as a matter of marketing. That is not always  the case. Frequently, it is contractual, and I have seen contracts in which the details of how and where an actor's name will appear on the credits page goes on for more than a page. Sometimes, it is for insurance purposes. 

4. Had LMM wanted his name above the title, you can be damn sure it would be there. I feel pretty confident he did not, and would have resisted if the producers had wanted it there.

[anmiller07]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 12:41pm

So none of the complainers want to sell their tickets for face value?

[binau]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:30pm

"The only "rule" is the one on the ticket, which forms a part of the contract between buyer and seller, which states very explicitly that there are NO refunds or exchanges."

I guess at the end of the day I am less concerned with what they are obligated to do, and more concerned with what they 'should' do. When a show is suggesting they are providing a certain level of service but can't due to no fault of the consumer, why should the consumer suffer? 

 

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:34pm

"When a show is suggesting they are providing a certain level of service but can't due to no fault of the consumer, why should the consumer suffer?"

They're providing the exact same level of service. It's just being provided by a different person. 

[binau]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:41pm

That point is extremely arguable. People in this thread alone have been complaining about Javier's performance-style in comparison with Lin-Manuel Miranda. And the service is more than simply a performance, but also features that are irreplaceable (e.g., the novelty of seeing a writer star in his own show). 

People keep using the word 'entitled' here in a negative context, I think it's a great word to describe this situation. Consumers should be entitled to see the performance they were advertised. Only in the performing arts can people often get away with this practice by making the terms and conditions absolutely clear up front - and it of course does make a lot of financial sense. People get sick, people get injured etc. it's financially risky to have your cash flow depend on the health of one or two people. But this practice is clearly at the advantage of the producers, not consumers.

Updated On: 7/8/15 at 06:41 PM

[Margo319]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:48pm

"Consumers should be entitled to see the performance that were advertised"

 

I couldn't agree more.  People spend thousands of dollars coming to New York to see specific shows with certain people in them.  It's very disappointing when that person is out.  However, he is letting people know ahead of time exactly when he won't be performing.  Sure, it's a little late for people who already bought tickets for those dates, but I'm sure they were figuring out the schedule first and didn't mean to screw anyone over.  

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:54pm

 

qolbinau,

All a ticket guarantees you is the right to see the show, not a particular cast member. Go ahead and be disappointed, but nobody has deceived or wronged you. 

[binau]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 6:57pm

And that is my point - they make that absolutely clear up front because they are disadvantaged financially any other way. I would say that in such a situation they haven't necessarily 'deceived' me (unless they knew in advance), but I would actually say they have 'wronged' me because they aren't providing the service that they said they would.

Updated On: 7/8/15 at 06:57 PM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 7:10pm

They never said explicitly or otherwise that you would be guaranteed to see Lin perform the role. Understudies are not a foreign concept to most people. The cast is always subject to changes and substitutions.

[binau]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 7:16pm

Similar to the previous discussion, that kind of comment is of course just an "asterix"-type disclaimer they would use to cover themselves in case it does happen because they don't want to lose revenue. But let's not pretend that they are not selling the specific cast, particularly the stars. Otherwise, why even announce the cast or put it on their website*? They should do it theme park style where you really are just turning up for the show and don't even know who the cast are.

* Interestingly, I don't think Hamilton even have the cast on their website at the moment. So this specific situation is not typical. But closer to performances I'm sure we'll see advertisements of the cast on their website.

 

Updated On: 7/8/15 at 07:16 PM

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 7:47pm

Sorry, I didn't realized you were determined to be ridiculous. I'll let you continue.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/8/15 at 8:00pm

Golbinau, You clearly understand that producers have no obligations here, and intellectually you obviously know you haven't been deceived or misled when you don't get something that you were not promised in the first place. So at bottom, this gets back to what I said earlier-disappointment.

It is the essence of live theatre (or any live  performance) that no two audiences are going to see the same show. That's what makes theatre exciting. And with extremely limited exceptions no producer ever guarantees anything other than that the show will be performed approximately at the time listed on the ticket. Because they can't. Let's get this straight: you are not entitled to a damn thing other than that. You may think you are, and that is exactly the sensibility many of us are criticizing. 

Now the other thing I have noticed is that most of the people complaining on here are people who have not seen the show. And so it is perhaps understandable, in this star-obsessed world we live in, that people think they are missing something and getting something less if they do not see the "star." they are not. The reason this is the hottest ticket in years (maybe ever) is NOT because of LMM's performance. It just isn't. He doesn't think it is; the overwhelming majority of the people who have seen it don't think it is; because it isn't. Frankly, selling tickets because he is not in it is just insane.