Kevin Kline Interested As Franz- Page 2

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 9:05am

no one here is calling broadway the "mecca of the artistic world". if the "artistic world" has a "mecca", i have no idea what it is. most broadway shows, not just those already mentioned are risks (need i even say it; "rent"), even a show like "wicked" has some degree of risk involved, because it is easy for them to not find an audience. hugh jackman is in "the boy from oz", and it isnt a huge succes because a lot of people dont like it, which goes to show that even if big stars are involved, a project can easily fail, so producers have to take big risks, and they do.
ok, im not holding back anymore... i HATE nickole kidman, she is so bad, and she would MUTILATE the role of ulla! ahhh!
ok im done.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 10:36am

Ok...Nicole Kidman is not bad. You may not like her. You may loathe her even. But she is not bad. Tawny Kittane is bad. Rob Schneider is bad. Nicole Kidman is a very good actress whom you do not like. Big difference.

As for the role of Ulla, it KILLS me what people come rushing to this role, defending it's artistic integrity like it's Medea. It's a chorus girl role bloated up to a supporting one. Maybe Nicole Kidman can't sing it 8 times a week. She only needs to sing it once...ONCE (if the song...which isn't that great...is even in the movie) and then the guys with ProTools can get their hands on it.

As for Broadway as the land of artistic fulfillment, the landscape has changed not just in the time I've been seeing Broadway shows, but even since I've been working here in NYC. All I ever wanted was to be on Broadway and lately, I'm thinking of departing for LA. You can actually make a living as both a regional theatre actor AND an extra.

And let's be very clear about both URINETOWN and CAROLINE, OR CHANGE. A beautiful, wonderful man named John Clancy was the one who took the first chance on URINETOWN and George C. Wolfe is the one who took the chance on CAROLINE. It's amazing what great buzz and great reviews and press will do to open the purse strings.

Updated On: 3/17/04 at 10:36 AM

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 5:08pm

whether an actress is talented or not is an opinion, so i was wrong to say that she is bad, i was just tired of trying to pretend that i thought she had any talent at all.
im really not talking about artistic merit anymore. in my opinion, there are other actresses who could do the role much more justice. c'mon, it is hollywood, there has got to be a bankable actress who could play the role and manage the vocals.

i also think that "the producers" does have artistic merit. it is hillarius, and comedy is a very difficult artform, and "if you got it flaunt it" is a very funny song. to say that it "isnt that great" is basically doing the same thing you were taking issue with me on; stating an opinion as a fact.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 6:25pm

Well...sorta kinda.

Let's go with the 'Nicole Kidman is bad' scenario. Now...we need to have both a standard of bad and a standard of good. For arguments sake, let's use Meryl Streep (a universally acknowledged 'good' actress) as the standard of good and Pia Zadora (a universally derided actress) as the standard of bad. Now, I would argue that Nicole Kidman falls somewhere in between those two standards, right? I mean...she's not a joke...a terrible actress like Pia Zadora, right? Nor is she one of the finest living actresses of our time (yet). She has some talent, and she uses her instrument pretty effectively in conveying emotion and thought. You're not confused by her acting. Your not laughing at it (are you?). There's just some sort of quality about her that irks you.

Let's do the same for '..Got It, Flaunt It' (henceforth known as GIFI). As a standard for a brilliant comic song, let's choose 'Getting Married Today' from COMPANY. As the standard for awful comic song, let's choose 'Red Hot Lava' from SECRETS EVERY SMART TRAVELLER SHOULD KNOW. Now, GIFI may be fun and give an actress a chance to do her stuff, but, as written, it does not meet the standard of the great 'Getting Married Today', nor does it sink to the stupid, non-sensical lows of 'Red Hot Lava.' It's a pretty good song that does it's job. Hence, my reasoning that it's 'not great.'

In the end, is this all opinion? Yes. But we HAVE to have standards in theatre (and film) on which to compare the artistic merits of a piece. Saying Nicole Kidman is a bad actress deflates your point because we all can recognize what a truly bad actress is. Just saying you hate Nicole Kidman is actually a stronger point, because that is a personal feeling that no one can argue with. Disagree with? Yes. But people can't tell you how to feel.

Updated On: 3/17/04 at 06:25 PM

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 7:13pm

as i said, i was wrong to say that she is bad because it is my opinion, and you are right to say that she falls somewhere between the standard of greatness and just being awful, but it is difficult for me to argue where kidman falls in that standard. yes she is between meryl and pia, but because i feel that her talents are so overrated, i have a difficult time hearing someone praise her, not just because i dont like her, but because i feel that she gets undeserved praise so often.

the thing about "GIFI" is that none of us here, even you, can be sure as to what mel brooks' intentions were when writting the song. perhaps he felt that in its musical simplicity, and in the way that it resembles that of an cheesy audition song, it would be all the more effective in the context of the show, and it is.

i actually have to admit that i am not familiar with "company" (i know of it, but i dont know the music), but i will say that while there are certain songs, shows, performers, etc., who are "universally acknowledged" as "good", just as those who are "universally derided", the line between mediocrity and greatness is rather thin because it is all in the eye of the beholder.

we do need standards by which to compare artist merit, but that doesnt mean that i cant laugh at kidmans performances(and i do occasionally laugh at them) and say that i feel that she is awful, even if you would feel that i feel stronger about the subject if i said i "hate her" (i dont, i dont know her)

i agree we need standards, and that no one can tell me how i feel, and i think i have made my feelings very clear.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 7:33pm

I actually think this was a lovely discourse and I must say I've enjoyed posting w/ you, nystate.

And just to clarify one thing, my whole diatribe was actually in response to the entire board, and not necessarily you specifically. I think it's best that we always strive to judge theatre in the most specific and knowledgable terms possible. There's a lot of 'This is great' or 'That sucks' without much context or appreciation of history. The more we can set standards and discuss shows (and performers) in terms of those standards, the more sophistacted our tastes will become (I believe, at least).

I also want to acknowledge that sometimes, there's no explaining a dislike for a performer or show. Sometimes all I can say is 'I CAN'T STAND HIM/HER/IT!' with no real solid reasoning to back it up. So, though I may not agree with how you feel on Kidman, I certainly understand it and respect those feelings you have.

I'm off. Have a lovely night. And I look forward to posting more with you.

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 3/17/04 at 10:57pm

thanks, i have enjoyed it as well.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 3/18/04 at 9:11am

I can't take credit for this. It's Barry's idea.

But he flippantly sugested the 'ideal' Ulla.

And ya know...it's not a half bad idea - and it's better than Kidman.


Courtney Love.

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 3/19/04 at 9:02am

I want to see Hillary Clinton play Ulla personally

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 3/19/04 at 11:48am

I can just picture Kidman's first scene during her number. She says, "Now--Ulla belt." And the just proceeds to whisper-sing louder, just as she did in Moulin Rouge Updated On: 3/19/04 at 11:48 AM

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 3/19/04 at 4:44pm

haha, my point exactly