Les Misérables: There will never be anything better.... — Page 7

There are a lot of those kids.

If I look at Les Miserables as a direct descendant of the operatic form, I am able to appreciate it much more. It does have the feel of an opera through the entire piece, as it is so very different than the American Broadway musical and the spark that comes with that, and it is one technically(an opera). It is absolutely something to be noticed and watched, but I do believe that as opposed to Disney, it was this show and a few others that may have changed the face of musical theatre for the worse in the future.

---

ok... I'm listening to the CSR recording... does anybody here not like the woman playing Fantine? her voice annoys the crap out of me... she ruined I Dreamed a Dream... as for Kaho Shimada.. i kinda like her Eponine... her On My Own could use a little more oomph, but I like her

I don't care for the Fantine

Kaho is so annoying on the Japanese CD

---

I really disagree with the statement that Les Miserables and several other shows, I'm guessing you mean't Phantom of the Opera, Miss Saigon, and Cats, changed musical theatre for the worse. If you really stop and think about it, the shows listed above are probably what have saved Broadway and the theatre in general. I know many probably think the these productions started the trend for the technical aspects of production to take presedence of the the actual story, but honestly that choice lies with those who conceive them. As times change, things are just growing, technology is booming, and production design can easily become bigger and better. If the theatre world doesn't keep up with the times, then it may become obsolete. For those of you who decide to criticise the era of the "British Mega-Musical", you should stop and give them a little more credit than they're getting!

See Ya!

Phantom05

---

How about Les Misérables: The Sequel?

gherbert,

I understand your facination about the golden age of Broadway. There are so many masterpieces which shine from past time till today. Fiddler, Gypsy, Man of La Mancha, Camelot...the more I watched or listened those beautiful treasure, the more I wish that I could live in that time. My time should be 60's.

However, I totally disagree your opinion that it is Les Miz which kill this time and tradition. It is unfair. Les Miz is a masterpiece too, no less than those masterpieces I mentioned. You don't like Les Miz, that is fine. But because you don't like it, you accuse that it kills your dream show is unfair. Yes, there aren't as great works as those in 60's , or 70's. But is it because the British musical? I don't think so. There are not as many good American works as before simply because the American musical creators did not do their jobs as good as before. Thus the British work took the place. Why American creators did not do the jobs well? I don't know. But I know they should not blame other's better work.

I am not Webber's fan though I loved his Joseph and JesusChrist Superstar. But I am uninterested in his Cats and Phantom. I love Les Miz very much, but I don't think Miss Saigon deserved the reputation (that show is wonderful too, just cannot campare with Les Miz).

Look, if I thought that Les Mis had "saved" the theatre as you said I would admit it and just say that I didn't like the show.

But I do think that it did a disservice to the theatre. I mean today it is about production and spectacle and familiarity --- Les Mis put an end to the show being the thing. The point is to NOT have the helicopter in Miss Saigon, it is to create moments like that. The point is to NOT have the tire in Cats. And although Cats came before Les Mis, Les Mis is the show that really clinched the deal.

It also started this era of long runs. I mean, we have few theatres as it is and now these show sit down and play a vulgar ten years. So sure, Les Mis caused a phenomenon, but it began sucking the life out of new works and now Broadway has become much more of a commecial struggle than it ever was.

And I am not saying that I don't like change. A Chorus Line was a change, but a change for the better. Sweeney Todd was a change, but it was a change for the better. Dreamgirls was a change but a change for the better. Not typical Golden Age fare, but it contributed to the musical theatre and opened up doors. Les Mis did not. It was a change for the worse. And you say that the British rock operas saved musical theatre, but the year that Cats opened, Nine opened. The year that Les Mis opened, Into the Woods opened. While neither of those are my favorite show, they prove that the musical was still surviving. Les Mis and Cats are what kicked real musicals off the map to clear the way for more vulgar rock operas.

Okay, your post was hard to decipher, but you made some points that are good and I want to address:

Yes, there were other long runs before this. Honestly I just forgot about A Chorus Line, but before these big long-running mega-musicals, only the cream of the crop could rise and have long runs. Les Mis, Cats, and yes A Chorus Line too all contributed to the fact that today you do not need to actually be a well-written, well-performed show to run. You just need to have good PR and go after a core-demographic and you can run. Take Mamma Mia! The show itself is one of the most poorly written shows and the set is pretty atrocious (it does, howver have very good performers in the leads usually), yet it will run forever because it appeals to the core demographic that buys tickets. When show that are bad run this long then shows that could potentially fill that space and bring new life to Broadway can't and all I am saying is that in an age where EVERY musical runs at least 2 years there's just not enough room for new works to grow.

The American musical theatre was on a wonderful course through the 60's and the 70's with deveoping new styles that progressed the art form. A Chorus Line, Sweeney Todd, and Dreamgirls were very different from the traditional musical, yet they served to deveop the musical theatre more and create new paths. The musical theatre was doing fine in the 1980's. We had Dreamgirls, Nine, Sunday in the Park with George, La Cage aux Folles, Into the Woods, Grand Hotel. But the rock operas kind of overshadowed all of that and slowly dominated Broadway. So the American musical stopped developing. There is a decided gap in the 1990's with the progression of the musical.

And you could say, "Well the rock operas were a new path too." But if you look at it they all had tortorously long runs and not that they are going out of style the quality of the Broadway musical is sub-par to before, not only the Golden Age, but from the 1980's. And that is a result of nothing happening in the 1990's as a result of these massive rock operas.

Regardless of whether they are good shows or not and I will admit that I am partial to some of the material in Phantom and Evita, they didn't do anything for the musical theatre because if they did they would endure and continue to be produced. But after Cats, Les Mis, Phantom, and Miss Saigon . . . they'll just be gone. I mean the ripples and effects only went so far.

P.S. I know you are going to throw Martin Guerre and The Woman in White in my face but since both recieved rather mixed reviews I think they prove that the age where critics were enamoured with gothic mega-musicals is over.

About long runs: Has nothing to do with the show. Well, it does. It means the show is good and people are coming to see it. Are you upset with the producers of Les Mis or the show itself? Les Mis is a show that happened to draw lots of audiences.

I like how in your long spiel, you never mention POTO, which is still playing. Miss Saigon, POTO, Cats, and Les Mis (for whatever reason) used to be a bundle - if you know what I mean. From advertisements to history books, those four shows were/are always mentioned together.

The fact that, Miss Saigon excluded (partly), these shows ran for so long depicts the changing audience. These shows ran for a long time for a reason. Perhaps instead of being upset with the show, be upset with the audience.

I figure you'll say, "Well, had the shows never opened, the audience's wants would not have changed." I guess we will never know for certain, but people liked these shows enough to keep paying money to see them.

---

BACK ON TOPIC: Les Mis: There will never be anything better....

---

Wish you good luck. It is always good to have a dream. You know, Man of La Mancha is my second favorite and Don Quixote is my most beloved role.

I love the old time musical too. (Les Miz cannot be replaced, of course. :) If you like to discuss 60s, you are most welcome.

I loved Les Miserables, and I'm really glad because we are going to be performing it this year. It's going to be the most difficult show we have ever done.
On the other hand, I am also nervous, becuase there are a lot of expectations and other schools waiting for us to mess up.
I think this show and its producers changed Broadway. I love Les Miserables and Miss Saigon too.
~Kangaroo

---