Let's Talk Doubt

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Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:15am

Saw the show tonight. The cast was amazing, but the show... I don't know. It just seemed to end. I liked the "twist" in the last seen, but I was shocked it was over. It was only an hour and a half. It kinda weirded me out. Let me know what you guys thought.

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:23am

OOOOOOhhhh i love this show. I saw it in previews when it got to broadway. My heart stopped by how Amazing The last 20 minutes of the play were(basically from Mrs. Muller onwards). And the performances were great. I actually really liked how it ended. Shanley said that the second act of the show would be your conversation. I find that kinda funny. But, I thought that was one heck of a great piece of theatre.

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:25am

B-Bnd - I had serious problems with the script, but I can assure you we are in the extreme minority on this one.

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:39am

Actually, the ending isn't a twist at all. It's may not be about what you think it is.

johnraymondbarker.com

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:41am

Jerby, my love, if I didn't know better, I'd think we were both related to Pavlov's dogs

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:43am

I saw it tonight as well, amazing show. I thought everything was wonderful and hope it continues to do well! ^__^

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:43am

LOL

I just know that what Cherry is playing is not what 2/3s of the audience thinks it is.

She tells the fans at the stagedoor what she is playing in that last line. She's really brilliant. :)

johnraymondbarker.com

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 12:59am

I read the script and I had to read it agian and agian. I think I read it four times on the way up to Chicago. It really reels you in.

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:03am

I've said it before and I will say it again. It's one of the most tightly constructed and brilliantly written plays I have seen in years, in my opinion. The fact that the last line of the play can be taken in different ways just makes it all the more intelligent, I think. That way, every actor who comes in to the show (and I hope it recasts and runs and runs) can interpret the character differently.

Nothing precious, plain to see, don't make a fuss over me. Not loud, not soft, but somewhere inbetween. Say sorry, just let it be the word you mean.

#10

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:03am

I think the script is fabulous because it provides a solid structure that allows the actors and director to come up with a myriad of interpretations to play with. The only requirement is that the play leave the audience in doubt as best it can (clearly much of the audience takes sides, as we are prone to do these days).

johnraymondbarker.com

#11

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:08am

I wonder if there will be a backlash at any point because the play is so open to interpretation and doesn't spoon feed the audience at every juncture and does leave people questioning the characters and their motivations. Some people don't like that, as was witnessed by the audience reaction when I saw Crash last night.

Nothing precious, plain to see, don't make a fuss over me. Not loud, not soft, but somewhere inbetween. Say sorry, just let it be the word you mean.

#12

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:10am

Oh my god, this is a test, isn't it?

#13

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:45am

Yes, DGrant, you must obviously retake it, since you failed the first time around

Seriously though, I am an avid play reader, loved every minute of Crash, especially the ending, and had real issues with the logic of Doubt. It pulled me in at a few points while I was reading, esp. Mrs. Muller, but otherwise I felt like the ending wasn't supported by the rest of the plotline. popcultureboy, you mentioned Crash as similar, but I felt that Crash, in all its beauty, actually had an ending supported by its plot. I dunno, maybe I need to see it to have that last line be interpreted for me by the magnificent Ms. Jones.

#14

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 1:55am

Whether the ending is supported by the plot or not is not my issue here. What I am saying is the endings of both my examples (Doubt and Crash) absolutely refuse to tie up all the loose endings into a neat little bow and send the viewer out of the auditorium with all the answers. The viewer has to actually think about what they've seen.

Nothing precious, plain to see, don't make a fuss over me. Not loud, not soft, but somewhere inbetween. Say sorry, just let it be the word you mean.

#15

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 2:02am

True. Though I felt that almost everything was tied up in Crash, what did you think was left open?

#16

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 2:07am

I saw it twice. Thought it was a good, not great play with some extraordinary performances elevating what is a fairly run of the mill well-made play into something special. Without Jones and O'Byrne, it wouldn't be getting the raves that it has. Frankly, it didn't make my list of the top ten shows from last year (and I saw 87) and barely made my top 20.

"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

#17

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 2:10am

My problem was I didn't have any 'doubts' about the course of events in DOUBT. I still don't think he accomplished what he brilliantly established as the goal in his glorious openning monologue.

#18

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 2:56am

I didn't exactly have doubts about the course of events. I just had doubts about the validity of the ending, which is similar to yours. To me, it just didn't pan out the way it seemed to want to, like it wasn't being written to its full potential, you know?

#19

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 3:11am

Gosh. I guess the Pulitzer, Tony, Drama Desk, etc people really screwed up!!

johnraymondbarker.com

#20

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 3:20am

Awards aren't everything, jrb. I know you may be kidding, but I have to say this. People can have their opinions. Even Margo didn't put it in her Top 10. I quite agree with her, at least from when I read it. People I've known who've seen both The Pillowman and Doubt actually preferred The Pillowman by a large majority. And it wasn't the one that got the Tony, Pulitzer, etc. People think that awards are the definitive end to an argument. But if you look at some of the people on the panels of voters, you start to wonder.

#21

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 7:32am

I agree in that the only thing in the entirety of the play that would even make an audience member doubt anything is that last line. The play has been tied up in a little bow until that line. There is nothing established to make the audience think otherwise, and then because of this one line, we're supposed to have doubts? Huh? The only doubts I had were also on the validity of the play. It left me confused about what I thought was an OK play, that actually turned out to be a waste of what could have been something meaningful on child molestation in the priesthood. Now before you jump down my throat, I do understand that that's not what the play WANTED to be about. It wanted to be about "doubt", but if you're trying to prove that point, don't give us 1 hour and 29 minutes of a play about child molestation in the priesthood with a beginning, middle and end, then 1 minute that is supposed to provoke doubt of all that. It's just not credible. The play is fine. When I saw it I couldn't believe that it had received all of these raving reviews. I mean, not one negative word at all. It still doesn't make sense to me and I think I have a very open, constructively critical mind about theater (I think we all do). I can't believe they wasted a Tony Award on Adriane Lenox's unrealistic character. She totally lacked credibility (because of the writing and the directing) and I thought that the scene was overacted and overdone. Awards aren't everything. I love you guys, but come on, I mean, hiding behind an award doesn't create much of an argument, and that's exactly what this play has been doing since it premiered Off-Broadway. The Pillowman deserved more than it got. That's all I have to say.

"Winning a Tony this year is like winning Best Attendance in third grade: no one will care but the winner and their mom."
-Kad

"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)

Updated On: 8/14/05 at 07:32 AM

#22

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 10:27am

Wow. All the negative reviews come out now, eh?

I was kidding around with the award comment. But, I do b!tchily make the point that you dissenters are indeed in the minority. And no offense to The Pillowman, which I thought was excellent, but please show me where people preferred it by a "large majority".

The play is not about child molestation. Sorry if it wasn't what you wanted it to be about, but it's JPS's play and he has every right to make it what he wants. It IS about how people in this country are so entrenched in their views on any given topic and scream at each other without always knowing all the facts. He merely chose the setting that he did as it is indeed a volatile issue.

When I saw the play, I felt that if I had just been a jurist, I could not have made a secure verdict. I had my feeling about whether or not he was guilty, but I did not KNOW. And, I have seen audience members:

1. be in doubt
2. see the show a second time and completely change their mind
3. chat with other audience members at the stage door and completely change their mind
4. be entrenched as to the verdict as some of you have been.

But, I telling you once again--that last line is probably not about what you think it is. I'm assuming you think he's guilty and that that last line is "thrown in" to attempt to make you doubt yourself. Not true at all. That line (at least in Ms. Jones' mind) has nothing to do with the priest.

But, you've all probably gotten so entrenched in your "right" opinion that the play is rubbish--and that's fine. But, know that the majority of people who see it think it's fantastic--so you just might be missing something that is not the fault of the play or the director. It happens.

And, I think Mrs. Muller is a fascinating character--why DO you want her to be what you expect? How boring.

johnraymondbarker.com

#23

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 10:47am

Saw it this past May. I was worried going in because I already knew that the "loose ends" were not tied up and thought that might ruin it for me. Well, it didn't. I thought the play was stunning. O'Byrne was fine. Ms Lennox seemed to be racing through her lines. I got the feeling that she was doing this as part of the character, but on the day I saw it, it didn't really work that well for me. Even with that, she mad my jaw drop to the floor. But it was the show itself that got me. When the show was over I realized that I had had my hands clasped together so tightly that it hurt to pull them apart! I was shaking when I left the theatre. I realize that there are things that I missed while watching the show. Things that were pointed out to me after seeing it. I had heard so much about Ms. Jones before seeing the show. And she delivered. Big time! Would love to know what she is playing during that last line. I have my thoughts on it. I found myself questioning every character in this play. Just brilliant, in my opinion.

Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder

#24

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 10:47am

I don't think the play is rubbish; I just don't think it's as overwhelmingly awesome as it's been made out to be. Every other play of last season, including the very worthy Pillowman and Gem of the Ocean, was almost forgotten in Doubt's overwhelming hype. And outside of the connection to current events, I just don't get that.

#25

re: Let's Talk Doubt

Posted: 8/14/05 at 10:57am

A word of clarification, since some people feel the last line is about Sister Aloysius suddenly having doubts about the priest's guilt. It's not. Shanley stated at an author's talk that the last line is about the birth of a modern woman (and the plight of women in the Catholic Church, as well as the modern day parallel of Iraqi women in their burkas was very much on his mind). The innocence or guilt of Father Flynn is beside the point by the time the ending rolls around. Instead, the character's conviction is cracking right in front of you. Rather than ambiguous, or incomplete, it's the moment that I feel leaves you to ponder how you behave and interact with others, and holding a position in an argument past the point of comfort for the sake of being right.

"Gif me the cobra jool!"

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