MATILDA performance on The View- Page 2

[americanboy99]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 2:18am

^ Unnecessary snark in response to quite a valid point of comparison made.

[trentsketch]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 7:36am

It's not really a valid comparison, though. One handheld mic used by the rockstar of the children who was the first student to ever stand up to the big bad villain does not mean they're copying Spring Awakening. Gray school uniforms required in a school run by a woman who loathes children and physically tortures them does not mean they're copying Spring Awakening. A wireless handheld mic that happens to be black and shaped like every other wireless handheld mic does not mean they're copying Spring Awakening. Children jumping around while playing does not mean they're copying Spring Awakening. If your only point of reference to a pop/rock show is Spring Awakening, then I can almost see the confusion.

The world does not revolve around Spring Awakening. The show had a very distinct style that worked for that production because it was so consistent and pervasive; I didn't even like the staging conceit with the hand mics and still walked out impressed by the thought put into the design of the production. It became a second language in the show. Matilda has the same thing going on with play-acting from young children becoming a form of communication that separates them from the more traditional style of the adults. Neither is the first show to break out with aggressive choreography or separate social constructs with varying styles of movement. I'm trying to think of a better comparison between closer shows. I'd venture to say that Matilda owes more to Bye Bye Birdie--where the stranger to the town who is forced to enter forever changes to community through non-threatening anti-establishment thinking--than it does to Spring Awakening. That or something like Bat Boy, where one incredibly intelligent person upends an entire community by learning to be the best they can be and forcing everyone else to change with them.

As for The View performance itself, it took me a few seconds to catch onto Oona's pronunciation and I was fine. I thought it was an adorable presentation from a really cute show. The kids sold it and the crowd ate it up.

We're not talking about one of the all time greatest musicals that forever changed the form; we're talking about a new musical firmly targeted at children with enough layered jokes and spectacle to appeal to adults. I'm trying to think of the last time we've had this kind of show do this well on Broadway. Thirteen bombed. A Year with Frog and Toad was straight up children's theater. Honk! never transferred from the West End. Seussical bombed. I guess the answer is Wicked even though I suspect they were aiming for a more mature audience than the preteens who obsess over the show.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 8:14am

Wow, that clip was seriously bad.

There are actually two major problems with intelligibility ...

1) These kids all sing very "choppy," so as much as they are chewing their words with their hugely thick accents. they seem to be emphasizing every single syllable with no fluidity at all, which makes them very hard to understand. I felt like I was having to connect a bunch of staccato "dots" to try to find an actual word or phrase in there.

2) The lyrics don't fit the rhythms of the melodies at all. Everything is ac-CENT-ed on the wrong syl-LAB-le. So even if these kids are trying to be understood, they are fight-ING a los-ING battle, because of the seriously poor marriage of music and lyrics. There is nothing natural about the rhythms in the music as they relate to the lyrics.

Those kids are working their butts off, putting out major energy, with a really subpar song.

[billis2]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 9:28am

Seriously, John Adams, why so grouchy?

Warchus and Darling created a scene in which schoolchildren in uniforms were making individual staccato choreographed movements at their individual desks and one of them pulls out a black handheld microphone out of their inside jacket pocket. It's completely legitimate to say that the staging has elements that are reminiscent of Spring Awakening, intentionally or otherwise.

Both Warchus and Darling have spent a fair amount of time in New York, and even if Spring Awakening did not have much impact in London, I find it hard to believe that they are unfamiliar with the staging of a Tony-winning musical. That doesn't mean that the staging is intentionally reminiscent of Spring Awakening, but IF they are troubled by comparisons, they could have minimized the comparison. I don't know if they are troubled by such a comparison, although John Adams certainly seems to be!


Updated On: 6/16/13 at 09:28 AM

[Steve C.]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 9:29am

I have to agree. Everything I've heard from Matilda is "not good" in a very bad way. Also, every time they perform for publicity/promos it's "Revolting"...where's the rest of the score? And what's with the karate chops/AKA "dancing"?
I'd say it's similar to Billy Elliot but that would be insulting Billy Elliot. ...Matilda is a highly, highly overrated show...but it has laser beams!

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 9:34am

Glad you can make a judgment call on a show you haven't seen and a score you haven't heard the entirety of.

I don't think the show has the best score, either. But the production is more than the sum of its parts.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 9:49am

Hiya, best12bars!

I get what you're saying, but I think if we and the children were all native speakers, who were very accustomed to hearing and speaking in these accents, this wouldn't be the problem that it is. I agree with you that as foreigners (compared to the characters on stage), we do need to work harder.

Here are the most unintelligible lyrics from Revolting Children:

We can S-P-L how we like!
If you know it, post it wrong.
Wrong is right!
Every word N-O-R-T-Y...
Experience a bit naughty!
Telling us 'stay inside the line'...
If we disobey at the same time,
There is nothing that the Trunchbull can do!
So take a hammer, and if they choose to
Make the prisoners spill blood,
That's fine, 'cause right now we...

R-E-V-O-L-T-I-N
(Come on!)
We're S-I-N-G
U-S-I-N-G...
(Yeah...)
We'll be R-E-V-O-L-T-I-N-G.
(Oh...)
It is too well late for you.
We R-E-volting!

I think that Minchin purposefully went outside the lines regarding the offbeat rhythms in this song. I think his choice to do so emphasizes the characters' choices to deliberately break the rules they're singing about. "Wrong is right". Musically, it's just like Matilda - a little bit "N-O-R-T-Y" (which is a bit of humor that incorporates a British accent on top of the bad spelling - something that may be flying over some American heads).

[mikem]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 10:02am

For me, the lyrics were much more intelligible in the theater than on The View. I think the sound on The View was just plain bad.

But I also think that some of the lyrics have so much wordplay that it fights against our understanding them. They come at you in a rush and on first listen, they can be hard to parse out (like the "We R-E-volting," which on first listen sounds like "We are E... wait a second, what's going on?"). Minchin is a very clever writer, but some of the cleverness is at odds with intelligibility.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 10:20am

>> "Warchus and Hoggett created a scene in which schoolchildren in uniforms were making individual staccato choreographed movements at their individual desks and one of them pulls out a black handheld microphone out of their inside jacket pocket."

Not really. I think you're way too hung up on the visual picture of British "schoolchildren in uniforms" as being an example of one show copying another. Perhaps it would also be fair to say that both shows are copying "The History Boys".

Regarding the microphone, would you feel the same way if Bruce were to lift the lid of a desk, and store/retrieve it from there? It's just a matter of convenience.

The karate chop choreography is an echo of Matilda's earlier choreography in "Naughty". At this point in the show, the children are following Matilda's example. Perhaps "karate chops" are too literal an example of "fighting". Updated On: 5/23/13 at 10:20 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 10:24am

>> "For me, the lyrics were much more intelligible in the theater than on The View. I think the sound on The View was just plain bad."

I agree.
I think, too that this Broadway season is an unusual one for "bad accents" in general. The two major contenders as musicals both contain examples of American actors struggling with British accents. If the new cast recording of Annie is an example of what's actually happening on stage, even that show has its problems.

_______________

EDIT:

>> "But I also think that some of the lyrics have so much wordplay that it fights against our understanding them."

And yet, "words" are a major theme that runs throughout this show. I think that's because of the importance of stories (words) in Matilda's character.

The entire stage is wrapped in a jumble of words (similar to Matilda's life, via her stories). The words (scrabble tiles) actually interact with characters on stage in the song, "School Song", where Minchin also incorporates wordplay. There's also the obvious connection of spelling/words to school. Updated On: 5/23/13 at 10:24 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:00am

Hey, I watch a lot of BBC. I have no problem with the East Enders, no problem with Magda on Ab Fab, no problem with the various Little Britain accents, but now that you printed those lyrics, I see the culprit.

There is no way on a first listen in a theatre that you could tell what is a "letter" and what is a "word." It goes by too fast, fights the accented rhythm of the music, THEN add in a thick accent.

Does this song come out of some sort of dialogue setup where we see that Matilda is speaking both letters and words at the same time? I'm not sure that would help, but at least I might understand what they were attempting to do.

For me, it's a fail as far as commutation goes. Cleverness trumps comprehension.

And what five-year-old on this planet would ever speak that way in any country in any era?

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:02am

They do in the fantasy world of Matilda, where a headmistress is able to swing a girl by her pigtails and launch her in the air.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:03am

Nope, just watched part of the clip again.

From the beginning, it's a garbled mess. Before she even starts spel-LING.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:33am

>> "There is no way on a first listen in a theatre that you could tell what is a "letter" and what is a "word." It goes by too fast, fights the accented rhythm of the music, THEN add in a thick accent."

I agree with you. I think more than one sitting is helpful (if not needed) to catch everything that's going on in the score.

Now I ain't sayin' that Minchin is a Sondheim, but he (and other Broadway composers) can be accused of the same thing.

___________________

EDIT:
>> "Nope, just watched part of the clip again.
From the beginning, it's a garbled mess."

Is that because of Minchin's writing, or (particularly in the case of this performance on The View), is it more the fault of some exceptionally bad sound on The View? Updated On: 5/23/13 at 11:33 AM

[VotePeron]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:38am

While it's not much of a warning, it is all "set up" during the School Song when the Big Kids sing to the new children about life at Trunchem Hall.

"So you think you're A-ble [able]
To survive this mess by B-ing [being]
A prince or a princess, you will soon C [see],
There's no escaping trage-D [tragedy].
And E-ven [even]
If you put in heaps of F-ort [effort],
You're just wasting ener-G [energy],
'Cause your life as you know it is H-ent [ancient] history."

And then theres the whole scene before Revolting Children about spelling correctly.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 11:43am

As has previously been said, words and the construction thereof, as well as adhering to rules and boundaries, are two major themes in the show.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:04pm

>> "As has previously been said, words and the construction thereof, as well as adhering to rules and boundaries, are two major themes in the show."

Not that I mind the very healthy debate ('cause where's the fun in "competition" without a little friction?), but today, with that post, you made me want to hug you.

Updated On: 5/23/13 at 12:04 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:06pm

Thank you, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same side here.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:09pm

>> "Thank you, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same side here."

I know! That's why (in the sea of "competitive" commentary posted above) I want to hug YOU.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:12pm

Got it! I misread your post!

[evic]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:36pm

The little tyke with the glasses looks just like Kim Jong Un.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:39pm

Was it John Adams's accent or the construction of his words, Kad?

Or was he just too clever to understand?



Honestly, I've never had a problem understanding Sondheim's lyrics. They may have many layers and repeated listenings yield a greater reward, but I never, ever thought "what the f***" did they just say on stage? Even in the choral numbers.

Updated On: 5/23/13 at 12:39 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:43pm

Is that because of Minchin's writing, or (particularly in the case of this performance on The View), is it more the fault of some exceptionally bad sound on The View?

John Adams, I searched for other examples of this song on YouTube and found the GMA presentation of the same song (different Matilda).

The sound quality is much better, and I understood more words this time ... but only a few. That Matilda wasn't as "choppy" with her delivery, so the fluidity helped. But as soon as she started Karate chopping, all lyric compression died for me. And when the other kids came in, forget it.

It might as well have been in foreign language at that point.

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 12:56pm

I think one of the majors issues with Matilda's Broadway transfer is Minchin thinks of American audiences bein less intellegent then Brittish audiences, so to quote him he did not want to "dumb down Matilda for American audiences." In reality American's appreciate a good thought proviking musical, Next to Normal, Spring Awakening, and Rent.
When Billy Elliot transfered its creative team realized American's would have a difficult time understanding the thick coalminer's cockney accent so they toned it down. They also minemised the children's accents because we all know children and accent's don't mix well. Minchin was to high on his horse to even consider dropping the accents and/or reworking the lyrics. Yes his lyrics are very intricate, but for the most part have very little regards to plot revelations. Very few of the songs advance the plot other than Bruce. He needs to realize that just because both American and Brits speak english they don't technically speak the same language. So a show that heavily relies on accents like Matilda, when transfering accross the pond needs to be treated like a translation and not a simple transfer.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/23/13 at 1:28pm

I read (and correct me where I've erred) two contrasting statements:

"Minchin thinks of American audiences bein less intellegent then Brittish audiences, so to quote him he did not want to 'dumb down Matilda for American audiences.'"

-and-

"When Billy Elliot transfered its creative team realized American's would have a difficult time understanding the thick coalminer's cockney accent so they toned it down. They also minemised the children's accents because we all know children and accent's don't mix well. Minchin was to high on his horse to even consider dropping the accents and/or reworking the lyrics.

Is Minchin at fault for thinking that Americans are too dumb to understand the "British" elements of Matilda, or too "high on his horse" to not rework the show for American audiences? Updated On: 5/23/13 at 01:28 PM