Making It On Broadway - th truth?- Page 4

[Speed]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:15pm

So you have more respect for someone who chooses to be a janitor or a fast food worker, both of which are easy to get jobs with job security== no risks taken to get these jobs.?? Actors put their hearts and souls on the line, are guaranteed nothing, and even when they succeed, they are often left with nothing. And it's upsetting, and yea, they're complaining that it was so hard, cuz it WAS. Why don't you repsect the actors who took so many risks to realize an impossible dream? So actors are supposed to do it all? Sacrifice their life, lose so much, get a bunch and then wind up with nothing AND be happy about it too? Hey, at least the fast food workers get to hate their jobs and still command respect. Sigh. And don't FORGET, the actors ARE working as janitors and fast food worked AND teachers because no one is HIRING them even though they won the Tony.

[NYC20042]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:17pm

Plum and Rathnait,

Here, my friends, is where you simply get it wrong:

Nowhere in the book does any actor "complain" for the sake of complaining. Rather, the actors share their perspectives and views on various aspects of the business with the hope that it will generate much needed discussion, and, ultimatley positive change for the industry.

There isn't one actor in the book who isn't grateful for their career on Broadway. What the actors have in common is a desire to take things into their own hands, discuss problems within the industry and within their lives, and hopefully have such problems meaningfully addressed.

There are big problems on Broadway today, problems which simply did not exist 20 years ago. Finally, actors are speaking up...

Updated On: 11/9/04 at 03:17 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:20pm

Speed, I don't dispute any of that. However, the fact is, everyone knows going into this business that it's fraught with insecurity. They know and they choose it anyway. Not to mention that in this economy, NO job is secure. You know that. Janitors, fast food workers, corporate workers...and most don't have the high salaries actors have to hold them over to that next job. And the fast food workers, janitors, and most corporate workers don't enjoy one single aspect of their jobs, unlike performers.

[B.B. Wolf]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:25pm

That's not all there is to it, Plum. A lot of it's great fun. Most of it, if it's truly what you have wanted to do with your life. But everyone sees the good stuff, mainly performances, autographs and recognition. The reason why I personally like this book is because very few people get to see the crappy stuff. Some people don't want to know that side and that's perfectly fine. Why would they? It diminishes the magic a little bit. And NOBODY wants to read the trials and tribulations of actors with shelves full of Tonys and five grand a week paychecks. But, it certainly doesn't make those opinions less valid.
And let's be honest, no one would buy a book about the ins and outs of being an accountant. Except accountants. And they'd be going, "Listen to those guys complaining! I just passed the CPA and those guys are COMPLAINING?!?"

[B.B. Wolf]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:29pm

Excellent point, Rath.

[NYC20042]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:43pm

Rath:

Once again, your language is offensive, disrespectful, and simply shows your lack of clarity of thought.

You write: "And the fast food workers, janitors, and most corporate workers don't enjoy one single aspect of their jobs, unlike performers."

How can you make such a statement? Are there any other professions you wish to disrespect and over-generalize about? There are good things and bad things about EVERY job. To be sure, many fast food workers and janitors are very happy with their positions.

What it sounds like is that you are not happy with your job. For that, I am deeply sorry.

But really, here is the question: Why are you so threatened about a book which finally shows "the dark side" of Broadway? Updated On: 11/9/04 at 03:43 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 3:45pm

*shakes head sadly*

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 4:31pm

"After reading that book, I just realized that there are a lot of winy, moaning,complaining actors out there."

You don't need a book to realize that. Just an hour in the greenroom.

[B.B. Wolf]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 4:49pm

heh heh heh. Nice, Matt.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 5:21pm

very. and true too. lol.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 5:23pm

PLEASE!! Stop with the in jokes! Greenroom? Does that mean that all wanna-bes work in the Greenroom for Letterman, Regis, etc? Doing what?

[B.B. Wolf]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 5:34pm

Sorry, midtown. The "greenroom" is the room just adjacent to or near the stage. It's where the water/tea/coffee and stuff is and it's where the actors congregate before they go onstage. The "ready room", if you will.

[clarky]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 5:34pm

I am sure in other professions people complain a lot too. But I think there is a slight difference: people who work in the theatre business love their profession (i think). They chose it, it was a dream come true.

I think that is the reason for me why that moaning turned me off. Not everyone has the privilege to stand on a stage and perform. It is a long progress to get that job. You have to be better or (let's call it) special than hundreds of others.

A lot of people take it for granted. Once they are unemployed, then the complaining turnes into another direction.........

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 5:42pm

clarky,
are you a professional actor? Until you have been... don't gripe about them. Yes, you go into this because you LOVE it more than anything, but it's VERY HARD and overwhelming at times... moreso than you could ever imagine. Until you have been out there, pounding the pavement, going to audtion after audition PRAYING for just a callback, working your but off in class after class AMND working a fullt ime job just to pay the rent until you get a job in a show.. then FINALLy get one, only to have teh producer call you up one daya nd saying that the show is closing in two weeks, PLEASE don't bitch about actors and their feelings about their struggles.

[Doogie]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 6:05pm

Alright, generally, I would just let a long thread like this go once I have posted twice, but I feel it is important to clarify myself.

I know that the life of any performer is damn near impossible. I have seen a lot of established broadway performers struggle to pay their rent, living in rent control. However, I do know that when you are currently a "hot" performer, or a currently known quantity, you have an easier time finding work (even if low paying) than an unknown.

For example:

Here are the things I KNOW FOR A FACT:

The incredibly talented Laura Benanti was offered Claudia in NINE 4 times, (w/o an audition), before she finally accepted it. Would she have been offered it (w/o an audition, no less!) if she were an UNKNOWN quantity? NO WAY!

Carolee Carmello, another awesome talent (who I believe was the BEST, PERFECT, choice for the role, known or not), was offered THE KING AND I at Paper Mill w/o an audition. Would they have offered it to an unknown? again, NO WAY.

I don not know which roles, but I KNOW for fact that Laura Benanti has been offered several roles at Paper Mill w/o an audition.

A lot of (not sure about ALL) of the cast of the recent off broadway revival of FIRST LADY SUITE was also based on offers only.

Carolee Carmello was cast as an ensemble member in KISMET at Westchester Broadway Theatre in the early 1980's. The producer of the theatre apparently saw a spark in her and asked her to come in and audition for the role of Carla in their production of NINE, which she eventually won at the age of 24.

ALSO, this I do not know FOR A FACT, but have heard it as a rumor.

A production staff member of Lincoln Center Theatre went to see some shows at the Sondheim Festival at Kennedy Center, and apparently, taken with Emily Skinner's portrayal of Gussie in MERRILY... spoke up to the production staff of Lincoln Center and suggested her for the role of Kitty Packard in DINNER AT EIGHT, which she eventually won.

Again, I am not sure if that last story is true. But, to answer the response that said "Emily Skinner is THAT talented." Dude, I know. Believe me, if Emily Skinner has a bigger fan, its Daisy, but I'm next in line. And yes, she is THAT talented. She's f*cking brilliant. But my point is that, no matter how talented you are, work can beget work, even in this industry. And of course, no matter how talented you are, you can fall on hard times and have a very hard time finding work.---

Doug

[clarky]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 6:06pm

I am a professional. I have done a couple of Long Runs. I know what I am talking about!

[midtowngym]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 6:14pm

I think you're all wonderful, beautiful people (for the record, i've never wanted to be an actor.) Your passion is amazing. But, isn't it also amazing that YOU get a chat room to gripe in and understanding ears like mine to listen. I've worked my ass off, went to school for years and have finally, at 41, found the right job. I'm smart, but have still been fired/laid off several times. Yet nobody wants to hear me kvetch. No one cares (except my family and friends.) I had to make contingency plans. I'm always thinking about alternative industries/positions/companies, just in case.
Who told all the artists they didn't have to be concerned about that?

[clarky]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 6:15pm

But why were there so many Les Mis storys in that book? And none of them were kinda nice...

[clarky]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 6:17pm

Well, I guess it is a dream until the dream becomes reality and reality is hard!

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 7:06pm

Will no one respond to my post? How sad.

My problem with the book isn't that the actors were complaining (I can see both sides of that issue), but rather that the book had holes and very clearly had an agenda. I felt the editors were somewhat manipulative, choosing quotations and assembling them carefully in order to get their own message across. Why was there such an imbalance with the shows they were covering (I think a third of the book dealt primarily with Les Miz experiences -- and why all the coverage on Martin Guerre, a show that never made it to Broadway)? Why wasn't there more discussion on racial casting, a huge issue in theatre? I felt the tone of the book was rather condescending.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 8:07pm

broadwayguy, the points made in your posts are the reasons why many people don't go into the business in the first place. It's not like those are hidden issues. Everyone in the world knows that's what a career as a performer entails - if they didn't know, believe me, there would be tens of thousands more trying it. Our point is you know that going in - you choose that. Why should we feel sorry for that? We chose NOT to do it, for those very reasons and like midtown said, no one is crying for our struggles. Our lives haven't been all that much better. And no one warned US that our "normal" careers would be as full of insecurities and periods of unemployment as all the actors who all knew what they were in for. I for one would have gone for it had I known that to choose a more "secure" career, as I thought I had, would be as insecure as any actor's. That's been a real issue for me to face. I chose not to do what I loved, and struggled just as much as if I had been doing what I loved. Where's our book? Life's hard and we all have to deal with it. If you're doing what you love AND it's hard, you still have it better than the majority of the population. You're still doing what you love.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 10:34pm

I imagine the heavy emphasis on Les Mis and Martin Guerre stories occurred because of who the authors knew- it's a lot easier to get a long interview out of a friend than out of an actor you've never met.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 11:56pm

I imagine the heavy emphasis on Les Mis and Martin Guerre stories occurred because of who the authors knew- it's a lot easier to get a long interview out of a friend than out of an actor you've never met.

Doesn't that put the entire objectivity of the book in question, then? If the vast majority of the people you interview are people you already know, and who probably share the same experiences that you want to emphasize in your agenda, then the views of the book are clearly going to be skewed.

[Speed]

Posted: 11/10/04 at 1:20am

It's rare, Doug, and remember this... it doesn't always beget the work you WANT? What if Laura wanted DIFFERENT roles or TV or film work and STILL wasn't getting seen for those jobs?

[Musetta1957]

Posted: 11/10/04 at 3:39am

"Why was there such an imbalance with the shows they were covering (I think a third of the book dealt primarily with Les Miz experiences -- and why all the coverage on Martin Guerre, a show that never made it to Broadway)?"

Jodie Langel was in Les Miz as Cosette and Eponine on tour and Broadway in 1994, 1995, and 2002. She also understudied Bertrande in the "pre-Broadway" Martin Guerre tour. You do the math.