Musicals Considered the Best Ever... — Page 3

Rainbowjude, wouldn't HIggins superciliousness and irony permit him to employ these departures from proper English is discussing that very theme, let alone to do so in a songschpiel where he is self-consciously parading his wit? I can even see Higgins viewing his ability to put over his substandard usages to his Covent Garden street audience as proof positive of his thesis that they can't speak English, and his use of an "Americanism" as dispositive support for his assertion that Americans don't currently speak English. Who better than an expert dialectician or grammarian would be (or rather who "more" than an expert dialectician...) familiar with the American language so as to use it in a lament on posited native English speakers' supposed failure to speak English?

And, by the way, what is the error of tense in 'there even are places where English completely disappears' Certainly "are" and "disappears" are correct. What substituted verb form would be "correcter" (misuse of the comparative form intended)? I don't think either clause would properly "be" (here I am using the subjunctive of "is" as I am speaking of the hypothetical) required to employ the subjunctive,, as he WAS not speaking in the theoretical/subjunctive. Do you mean, perhaps, that he should have said "there even are places where English "has" completely "disappeared"? (or, perhaps, more simply, and in the simple preterite), "where English completely disappeared." Perhaps that would be, in your estimation, clearer but it wouldn't scan and I'd argue that it would prove stilted (and therefore a much worse lyric). And I don't think it is incorrect for Higgins to say "completely disappears" simply because in America he frames it in terms of a past occurrence, as he is using American English as only one example among many (perhaps some where it be an ongoing relinquishment, not a past perfect one as he cites it being in America) of a complete absence of the language. His allusion to American English, rather than being an example of a present progressive near extinction, is rather additional evidence of English obsolescence, past perfect or progressive (that is, if progressive obsolescence is not a contradiction in terms; if it be such, then my use of "obsolescence" might be incorrect, but not anything Higgins says (or rather, said, although at any moment there is likely a performance of this song being enjoyed, or, at least, a performance of "My Fair Lady" in progress) as he was referring to both obsolescence and near obsolescence as proof of disappearance, past perfect or in progress). Please excuse any dangling parenthetical.

Updated On: 5/28/12 at 08:23 AM

Oklahoma has always been my favourite R&H musical, by a fairly large margin, followed by Sound of Music.

RainbowJude, I believe you're being too literal regarding "where English completely disappears". I think the personification is from the point of view of a traveler who finds that "English disappears" gradually as he travels northward, say, toward York. (America is distinguished as the place where the language vanished long ago.)

But there's no question that "hung" should be "hanged" and Higgins would know it.

And FWIW, you were perfectly clear that you are talking about one character's diction, not arguing that all characters should use perfect grammar. Point taken.

Updated On: 5/28/12 at 06:20 PM

RaisedOn, I know that several books (like Martin Gottfried's Broadway Musicals which I grew up reading) think The King and I is the best, or most "perfect" of the R&H shows. My heart belongs to Carousel, but I do think K&I is the more, for lack of a better word, perfect of their musicals--it seemed to be the peak of what they wrote together.

Personally, I prefer Cinderella of all the R&H musicals.

Soon to be destroyed, no doubt, in a new "revisal."

As I've grown up I have liked Gottfried's writing less and less, especially reading some of his reviews. As a kid his Broadway Musicals with the photo of A Chorus Line on the cover was my bible--I think I had it continuously out from the library. He also seems to have been a pretty homophobic writer (which is always amusing when someone makes their living largely writing about musical theatre).

We always seem to be at odds, don't we? :P I prefer both Carousel and Oklahoma to King and I, but I think King and I is the more polished piece, if that makes sense? That also makes it less exciting. While the acting was a mixed bag, it was great to see the N Carolina televised production of their "recreation" of the original Oklahoma!

He had some similar comments to Goldman about the homosexualization of Broadway.

I do think King and I is more polished than their earlier work--and I suppose as a peak I consider it over Sound of Music because Hammerstein didn't do the book.