Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?- Page 2
Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#25
Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:56am
Ray said:
"I forgot what Mandelbaum's criteria for the first book was, I know it was a combination of economics and how long the show ran. So just focusing on the flop status, I'd like to see him talk about:
PASSION
CAROLINE, OR CHANGE
GREY GARDENS
IN MY LIFE
RAGTIME
STEEL PIER
And the bunch of revivals that have flopped like WONDERFUL TOWN, SWEET CHARITY, LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, etc. "
I dunno, I see how these could be called flops--Ragtime didn't recoup, etc but I really don't think any of these besides In My Life--maybe Steel Pier--would fit the criteria of the first book. WOnderful Town ran nearly as long as the original, Passion was never expected to run much longer than it did in all honesty, Ragtime had several companies running at once doing it...
I'd LOVE a West End version of Not Since Carrie--so many ridiculous sounding shows there that I'd love to hear more about.
I still with Got Tu Go Disco was covered better in the original.
I suppose he could have a combined chapter of my beloved LaChiusa's two 2000 flops, WIld Party and Marie Christine (although I'm not sure if Marie counts--wasn't it a close ended run that *could* be made open ended?)
Woman in White would be interesting, or some of the shows that didn't make it to Broadway (I think that counts--Baker's Wife is in the first book) like the Hal Prince Whistle Down the Wind
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#26
Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:53am
Annie 2 is in the 1st book and i could have swore Nick and Nora was as well.
They should include West End flops, in the last 12 months we have had Rent Remixed, Gone With The Wind, Desperately Seeking Susan and the wonderful and underrated Bad Girls
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#27
Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:57amThey should include all-out critical and financial flops (since they are plenty), not just good, arty shows that didn't find an audience but that theatregoers loved.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#28
Posted: 11/4/08 at 10:57am
"Into the Light"
"Taboo"
"Cry-Baby"
"Thou Shalt Not"
"Marie Christine"
and that dreadful "Threepenny" revival with Alan Cumming and Cyndi Lauper (both of whom I love, but that was just dreadful)
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#29
Posted: 11/4/08 at 11:39amI loved the stories in Not Since Carrie and want to read more. I'd really love to read about West End flops as well as Broadway ones.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#30
Posted: 11/4/08 at 11:45am
DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES, of course.
RING OF FIRE and GOOD VIBRATIONS, two of the most agonizing evenings ever in the theatre.
CORAM BOY
That sad little Elvis musical with Cheyenne Jackson, whatever it was called. And WEDDING SINGER, HIGH FIDELITY...
The list goes on.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#31
Posted: 11/4/08 at 1:14pm
I think the first book ended with SHOGUN (which played before NICK & NORA).
I would love to see pages about WHOREHOUSE GOES PUBLIC and THE RED SHOES.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#32
Posted: 11/4/08 at 1:23pmI'd love a better writer for the book, one who gives more facts and less conjecture. The idea of the books is fantastic, the execution, no so great.
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/03
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#33
Posted: 11/4/08 at 3:47pm
There could be a new chapter on long-run shows that did not make back their original capitalization in town. To be fair some shows did turn a profit after a tour, and most made at least some of the original investment back.
This was a comparatively rare phenomenon back in the day: Milk and Honey, What Makes Sammy Run?, The Apple Tree. However beginning in the 70s the number picked up: Purlie, The Rothschilds, Shenandoah, the original Chicago, Woman of the Year.
In the late 80s the number exploded to the point that it seemed that almost no shows made money.
There could be a whole chapter on the jukebox rise and fall.
Also when Side Show closed, Mandelbaum wrote that he didn't expect to see a show that would be a heartbreaker so soon after he published the first book.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#34
Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:54pmIf it covered the West End I'd love to see Closer to Heaven given a good write up--it already feels sadly forgotten, even with so much great stuff in it (to be fair, it fulfilled its full planned run, but was expected to have more success than that)
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#35
Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:13pmYou know. Speaking of Dance of the Vampires, Ken Mandelbaum is actually a fan of the original German show that Dance is based on so he could probably do a whole chapter which is a comparison of the two. Although he DID already do something like that on Broadway.com.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#36
Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:13pmYou know. Speaking of Dance of the Vampires, Ken Mandelbaum is actually a fan of the original German show that Dance is based on so he could probably do a whole chapter which is a comparison of the two. Although he DID already do something like that on Broadway.com.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#37
Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:46pmA Tale of Two Cities
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#38
Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:01pmI thought Mandelbaum was seriously ill -- I read that on some thread here some time ago, I believe.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#39
Posted: 11/4/08 at 9:49pm
Bring Back Birdie-why the sequal
Taboo-so weird
Seussical-such potential why did flop
Glory Days-Why was it on broadway
Revivasls: Oliver (they tried a couples of times still went wrong)
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#40
Posted: 11/4/08 at 10:21pmAs crazy as it sounds i have Mandelbaum on my email list, he wanted a copy of a bootleg DVD i had lol, hes such a sweet guy and said he was hoping to do a follow up book to Not Since Carrie
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#41
Posted: 11/4/08 at 11:28pm
Why have a couple of people suggested nonmusicals? I don't think Mandelbaum's going to cover those.
Eric, Caroline, or Change would definitely fit the criteria Mandelbaum set in the first book.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#42
Posted: 11/5/08 at 6:12am
"Why have a couple of people suggested nonmusicals? I don't think Mandelbaum's going to cover those.
Eric, Caroline, or Change would definitely fit the criteria Mandelbaum set in the first book.
"
I just ot carried away with the plays--they're the poor brother to musicals I know but 
I gotta agree I guess, hesitatingly, that Caroline fits the criteria. It just seems like it was created under different circumstances, and with vastly different public audience reactions than was Carrie, or Iilya Darling, or the scientology musical with Dean Jones...
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#44
Posted: 11/5/08 at 11:22am
MARIE CHRISTINE was a Lincoln Center production which means it was a non-profit run, hence it wouldn't classify as a "flop" so Mandelbaum wouldn't cover it.
Broadway Star Joined: 7/28/06
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#45
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:01pm
Adding:
Aspects of Love
Starmites
Tarzan
and though I hate to add it: Starlight Express
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#46
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:35pmShow me...DOTV!
Broadway Star Joined: 7/28/06
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#47
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:59pmGod I loved that show... DOTV was such a fun night of mindless money being paraded across the stage. I still don't get how at least the staging didn't get nominated. . . . *sigh*
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#48
Posted: 5/12/10 at 4:42pm
I would appreciate Mandelbaum including some earlier flops he did not cover in the first book, such as Let It Ride!, Clownaround, Brainchild, Got Tu Go Disco, Heathen!, Spotlight, and Cool Off!
I would love to read his musings on:
Side Show
Triumph of Love
The Capeman
In My Life (wish I could have seen that one)
The Red Shoes
Nick & Nora
Sweet Smell of Success
The Goodbye Girl
...and of course the wave of vampire musicals...
Still waiting on my Cool Off! cast recording from Columbia records.
re: Not Since Carrie 2: What Shows Would You Want Included?#49
Posted: 5/12/10 at 5:03pmI often find myself rereading his last chapter, "Heartbreakers and Cream," featuring great or near-great shows that flopped. I'd love to read a chapter like that on recent musicals. Camp flops are fun, but shows like Rags and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue fascinate me a lot more than Whoop Up!, or pretty much any other musical with an exclamatory title.
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