Opinions on "All Black" Versions of "White" Shows — Page 2

#26

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:15pm

But I wish to God people would admit that it's orally a one way street and any professional production using white people in roles known for being "black" would be boycotted and would never be considered acceptable.

Again, I have yet to see anything but a hypothetical example of this.

Updated On: 4/26/12 at 02:15 PM

#27

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:18pm

Robbie, I agree totally. That's what I was trying to get across. Some shows could be done colorblind in that there is no overt reference to ethnicity, but that doesn't mean that they would necessarily work.

However, such shows are quite few in number and don't really fit into the overall context of this discussion.

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....but the world goes 'round

#28

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:18pm

Lol. My phone changed "only" to "orally".

But it IS only hypothetical because to even attempt it would be "racist".

#29

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:19pm

MB,

It also points up how many times people don't really know the piece they're discussing. I remember when people couldn't begin to wrap their heads around a black Big Daddy. But the character was a poor man in his youth who was taken in by a gay couple to run their plantation and who worked like a 'n* in a field.' (I hope I didn't misquote that line). The line, of course, takes on a different weight and texture when spoken by a black man, but it still works. I think the one leap is the idea that Brick was some sort of sports caster in the 50's. But even then, I can imagine we could find some sort of precedent.

#30

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:21pm

Name a role that's associated with a black (or any non-white) character (but doesn't have to do with race) that anyone has said can't be played by a white actor.

#31

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:22pm

But it IS only hypothetical because to even attempt it would be "racist".

It wouldn't be "racist," it would be racist. Because taking a show that deals with race and ethnicity overtly and removing the race and ethnicity of characters is taking the power and agency away from whatever ethnic group the story was about. Having a white only Raisin in the Sun is racist. Having a white only Flower Drum Song is racist. Those are stories about specific ethnic groups, and how their ethnicity affects the way they function in society.

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When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain. -Kad

#32

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:24pm

I'm hard pressed to think of any playwright or play that notes what race the character should be when race isn't discussed or an issue in the play.

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"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#33

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:29pm

AIN'T MISBEHAVIN' tours the African-American experience in the early to mid-20th century in a very sophisticated fashion, even though it doesn't have a formal plot. I suppose a mixed-race cast might could do it, but as a rule, I'd stick with African-Americans. This isn't to argue with all the posts above; I'm just saying this show is a poor example. A color-blind or non-traditional WIZ sounds fine to me, just as all-black GUYS AND DOLLS worked in the 70s (except for the hints of disco in the orchestrations).

#34

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:31pm

Things like swapping or mix and matching the races of the Rent bohemians have been discussed. I believe Equity forbids it, or something like that.

#35

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:37pm

How can Equity forbid that?

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"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#36

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:38pm

Beat me to it Kad. It's an urban legend if I ever I heard one.

#37

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:39pm

Even if it is an Equity issue, I've seen local productions of Rent with casting that didn't follow the racial line of the Broadway production.

I think there's talk that Larson specified how the races needed to be portrayed in professional productions, but whether it's true or not, I don't know. At any rate, no one in this thread is saying Collins can't be white.

Updated On: 4/26/12 at 02:39 PM

#38

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:52pm

Equity has no say on how a production is cast, aside from membership-related issues.

Race is fairly a non-issue in Rent. I suppose Mark should be white and Mimi should be Latina... but race isn't the issue being discussed.

One could cast an all-white Rent or an all-black Rent. The Rentheads would go nuts, but whatever.

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"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#39

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:52pm

Or Joanne, for that matter.

Or that Roger can't be Asian or Latino.

#40

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 2:57pm

I'd even be okay with a white Alexi Darling!

#41

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:00pm

Why do I feel like whenever race is discussed on here, the topic inevitably turns to Rent?

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"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#42

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:05pm

Then how about Sister Act? There is nothing in Deloris's background that demands the role be black. You would only have to change a few non essential lines. But my guess would be there would be a lot of screaming if that were to happen.

#43

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:08pm

I guess let it happen first, then and see who screams? No, there's no real reason why Deloris can't be cast with a white actress.

That said, I don't know that I'd see the necessity to make that sort of change. Maybe if there were just no white women starring in musicals on Broadway, then I'd think it should be seriously considered.

Why do I feel like whenever race is discussed on here, the topic inevitably turns to Rent?

When I see these kinds of threads I figure we'll inevitably hit the trifecta of Dreamgirls, Show Boat and A Raisin in the Sun.

Updated On: 4/26/12 at 03:08 PM

#44

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:10pm

"...people couldn't begin to wrap their heads around a black Big Daddy."

Reading that in haste, I saw "big black Daddy," and thought, "I have no trouble wrapping my head around - oh, wait."

Re: Deloris Van Cartier: the character was originally created for Bette Midler, but I don't know how much the actual writing changed when it was given to Whoopi Goldberg.

#45

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:12pm

Do those of you who think that race is usually unimportant to character disagree that race informs character? Or is your position just that we're in the theatre, so we can look past it?

#46

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:14pm

The anecdote I have heard is that Whoopi demanded that none of the writing be changed, as she wanted to play a character without racial markers and prove that any actress can play a character without having to have it be racially explicit.

This is why the second movie had an overall heavier feel of urban black culture- the sequel writers knew they were writing a black movie for a black star.

#47

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:14pm

Race by itself does not inform character.

Social circumstances connected to race do.

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"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#48

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:17pm

Sister Act 2 is a "black movie"? What is the first one considered?

#49

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:20pm

I saw it on Black Starz, so it must be.

#50

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Posted: 4/26/12 at 3:26pm

Kad, I see your point but I think those two are intimately interconnected.

Take a contemporary black American character for example. Whether they're assimilated to WASP culture or hail from ghetto culture (or from any other social circumstance), how is irrelevant that they are black? If the character grew up black around predominately white American culture, they would have gone through many things by virtue of the color of their skin that the same character, if white, would not have experienced. Skin color informs their character at a very basic level.