Please Read: My Message to the Members of BWW.com- Page 2

[Patronus]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 3:58pm

Exactly.

There are also different levels.

If there is a thread about how wonderful "Performer A" is and I post in there saying that I don't like them, I don't think it's a problem.

If I constantly start threads saying "Performer A is an Untalented, Ungrateful Bitch" then that is a problem.

However, it comes with being a performer in the public eye and criticism is part of that. Sadly, there are immature people who can't express themselves without being childish, but I don't see any problem with being critical of performers.

I disagree that this stuff gets back to everyone anyway, but if it does I doubt most of them really care.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:00pm

But Patronus, what if Performer A really is an untalented, ungrateful bitch?

And the reason I wonder why a performer would read this is because this is such a volatile message board. It can't be nice to get massacred the way most performers get attacked here...so why would you bother?

And then, if you did, why would you bother responding. Usually the person makes it clear they are closed-minded. Why respond?
Updated On: 12/23/05 at 04:00 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:01pm

Shouldn't and does are two very different words. If they aren't reading this, their family and friends are.

And, so they put themselves in the public eye--that doesn't mean that we shouldn't aspire to be a community that can be educated and constructive in our criticisms as opposed to vile and nasty.

Rath: Would you be happy to read vile and nasty comments about Karen Ziemba, Kathleen Turner, Debra Monk, or Maureen McGovern? Wouldn't you prefer that people refrained from making nasty comments about them?

Not to mention that I still don't understand why people waste their energies on the negative--on things they don't like. Or why people take joy in hurting other posters' feelings when it isn't called for--barging into an appreciation thread, for example.

There IS too much nastiness on BWW.

Updated On: 12/23/05 at 04:01 PM

[zepka102]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:02pm

i'm gonna miss you... you're a great guy who is not a tweeny at all!

[Patronus]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:04pm

>But Patronus, what if Performer A really is an untalented, >ungrateful bitch?

AH, that is where the true fun in the PM lies.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:06pm

I was just saying, jrb. And I don't bring negative comments back to the person they're said about. These are just opinions on a message board - sometimes I get defensive about them, but I certainly wouldn't then share them with the actor themselves. If they choose to read the board, they have to learn to deal. If they don't, it's not my place to tell them what's here.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:07pm

paradox--BWW wasn't always so nasty. When it started over 2 years ago, there was a clear distinction between us and ATC. Now, sadly, I dunno how much difference there is.

It's in our interest as a community to be respectful in our criticisms and loud in our support--many of these performers have supported BWW in our various BC/EFA concerts. At some point, why would any of them want to support a nasty site? Why would a performer want to be associated with a site that trashes them constantly?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:09pm

Well, rath, maybe YOU don't share what's said negatively on here with performers. And, I certainly don't. But others do.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:09pm

I know. And I don't get it.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:11pm

Jerbie, you make a mighty good point.

BWW has been bitchy since the day I've joined, but I don't take it very seriously.

In fact, I'm almost (ALMOST) glad it is. It takes real love for something to be so passionate, even when it's so negative. THAT can't hurt Broadway.

Passion for musical theatre is what this site is about. With that comes the good and the bad...
Updated On: 12/23/05 at 04:11 PM

[Patronus]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:12pm

That is a good point, jrb.

I think the important thing is clarifying what is "nasty" vs "acceptable & constructive criticism."

We are a discussion board and I feel it's important to be able to share our views and opinions on performers and performances.

There isn't any need for negativity for negativity's sake, but I want honest opinions that are well rounded rather than a total love fest.

I suspect that is what you mean as well, but it's an important distinction.

Besides, my vile and venom is usually spat at posters who say insane things and post the 47th Wicked thread of the day, not the performers themselves.

Updated On: 12/23/05 at 04:12 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:16pm

willact-It doesn't sound like you're a veteran of many message boards because this is what goes on on all of them. The boards are here for us to freely post our opinions, no matter what they are. Hey, look what happened to me yesterday when I posted unpopular opinions on two big movies. I was blasted from here to eternity. So what? I'm not afraid to post my opinions. If it bothers you, definitely leave. Or take a long vacation, I don't know. Life's too short to deal with anything that you don't have to deal with. good luck!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:17pm

Trust me--criticism is vital to keeping the artform at its best.

And, I think good criticism would be something you could expect to see in the New York Times or Time Magazine or Entertainment Weekly.

Bad criticism is usually rather obvious and sounds like something the National Enquirer would use to create a story about a nasty Hollywood catfight.

And, the think the nastiness is also between posters, and that's a whole other ball of wax.

[Lamc16]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:18pm

Wow. If you're not willing to put yourself out there unless everyone agrees with you 100%, you're going to have a very tough time in life. Please tell me you're no older than 13.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:21pm

I can recall a couple of times where a performer was being bashed, and I know for a FACT the performer read the posts.

Out of respect, I will not share these performer's names. But I know it was very hurtful to them.

Peformers have and do read the boards, and have seen posts about themselves being bashed.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:22pm

Lamc--you don't get it--he's not upset that there is criticism. He's upset that people are NASTY and VILE in their criticism.

There is a big distinction that many of you DO NOT GET.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:24pm

While there are judgemental folks on this board, and opinions galore, I think, like many have said, there is a clear difference between someone saying "I did not enjoy that performance" which is fair, and the personalized, unreasonable hate that is strewn many performers way.

Though it is obvious, what comes clearly to mind is how some of the women who have played the role of Elphaba have been treated on this board. It is both near pychotic and very juvenille. With that role, and the clear identification many poster have with the character, things have been said about very talented women, specifically Idina and Shoshana, that are just not right. And the level of venom leads me to believe some folks are actually imbalanced. I am not sure if the Wicked frenzy a few years ago triggered a reaction and included members that thought it is OK to treat BW starts like meat you can grind, but that is how many are treated now.

There are some posters that I just ignore because I do not think anything they say has any basis in reality (and perhaps other do the same to me and my posts, who knows).

We should not let those who are negative and nasty determine the tone of this board. Legitimate criticism is not a problem. It is those who think they have the right, and often the obligation to not only criticize the work or performance, but destroy the performer him/herself.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:26pm

Maybe I don't see all of the complete venom because I generally steer well-clear of Wicked and RENT threads.

Maybe it's worse than I think it is.

I think BWW is bitchy, but nothing life-threatening...

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:29pm

Everyone keeps saying Shoshana and other Elphabas have received the most bashing.

But I don't think Shoshana or the other Elphabas received near the amount of HATE Christina Applegate received in the Spring. Everyone fails to remember that. I would receive PMs from posters bashing her, even a death threat once (in a PM.) It was a terrible time, and she didn't deserve that.

I guess it just shows when you're a bigger name and a Hollywood name, the more bashing will attract.

I'm just tired of everyone whining like Shoshana is the only performer who has gotten bashed on here before.

[Lamc16]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:29pm

no, jrb... to me, it sounds like he's not ONLY upset that certain performers are getting bashed, but more so, because the people who are getting bashed are the people that he holds a high opinion of, clearly. if joe schmo got bashed, and he didn't give a rip about joe, what would he care?

[pab]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:30pm

Getting back to the original post that started this thread, I would have to say that when you live in a glass house you really should not throw stones.

willact4food started a thread on the off-topic about the movie The Family Stone, asking if anyone had seen it. He also said, in that post, that he would be interested to see what other people had thought about the movie so I posted a link, to a thread about The Family Stone that already existed, so that he could in fact see what other people had thought. I received the following reply:

willact4food: "pab, I don't give a damn. I made my own thread. Get over it. And stop trying to constantly correct people. "

This is a person who wants to write about constant negativity? Give me a break! Don't create a thread to criticize people who you say do the same things that you did and then get all self righteous about it.

The Family Stone Thread

Updated On: 12/23/05 at 04:30 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:32pm

Delurking again to say that I agree with jrb actor that there's a difference between honest criticism and being nasty just for the sake of being nasty. This board has a lot of really great posters who share a lot of good information and I've learned a lot from reading here. I'd hate to see this information lost in between the nastiness (which just makes the poster look bad, btw). I've seen it happen on other boards.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:32pm

Our lowest point in BWW History may have been the Unpopular Opinions thread--though one can hope that everyone was able to purge and get their nasty comments out in one thread.

[shameless]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:32pm

Willact, I hear what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it, but I think you also have to remember that we have a choice about which threads we participate in. It took me a while, but I've finally figured out which type of threads are bound to turn nasty in a hurry, and if I don't think I can take it, then I try to avoid them, or I say what I have to say, and I go.

And, as nasty as this place can be at times, I still think the good outweighs the bad.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 4:35pm

Ljay,

I was not on in the spring with the Sweet Charity issues, but I have not doubt of the venom.

I was just using the Wicked crazies as an obvious example.