Schindler's List- Page 2

[shlamdiddly]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 9:59pm

I think it could be done well either way. I would go see it if it was ever on Broadway.

[JenD512]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 11:01pm

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That's ridiculous...you *can* set anything to music. Doesn't mean you should. Enough country singers have made 9/11 songs that make me want to gag.

Making a musical out of "Schindler's List" and thinking people won't be offended by it is pretty naive. Somehow, the concentration camp musical doesn't seem like the type of show that audiences are going to fly to.

I can't see a singing Oskar Schindler--or worse, a singing Amon Goeth. Ugh.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 12:05am

"I think that thinking that serious subject matter can't be set to music is limited thinking."

Sure. Artistry can redeem any subject matter. But you'd have to look to the world of classical music for a suitable composer on such a project. There isn't one working composer on Broadway who would have the talent, depth, vision, and inclination to do the subject justice (Sondheim, in a superficial fashion, has already written his Holocaust musical). Thank God.

Natasha Rostova
St. Petersburg, Russia

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 12:05 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 1:35am

I consider Opera and Musical Theatre to be on opposite ends of the same spectrum.

And, I disagree that there are no Broadway composers capable of this.

AGAIN, Jen, I think you are thinking musical and thinking tap dancing and love duets. I am thinking serious music. And, yes, it would be a musical that would be opera/operetta. Music has the ability to tell ANY story. The most heartwrenching music can tell its story. Imagine if the score was similar to John William's score for the film. That's the kind of musical I imagine.

Words help you think a thought.
Music helps you feel a feeling.
Songs help you feel a thought.

And shouldn't somethings as catastrophic as the Holocaust be something that future generations not merely think about--but feel? Empathize? Learn from?

We can agree to disagree, but I will not concede. And, I won't be called naive, etc. just because you disagree about this.

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 01:35 AM

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:57am

Opera IS musical theatre. And a subject dealing with the extremes of human experience as the Holocaust does requires the size and scope of the operatic "spectrum" to encompass it.
And if you're going to quote E.Y. Harburg, get it right:

A lyric makes you think
Music makes you feel
A song makes you feel a thought.

TheEnchantedHunter
Ted Hunter, Cane, NH

[paradox_error]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 10:47am

WTF?!?!?

TheEnchantedHunter, why have posted your name three different ways in this thread, two as Americans (one male, one female) and one as a Russian Woman...
I'm confused...

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 10:58am

JenD -

"The Holocaust was a historical travesty where 6 million people were murdered."

Try upping your number. 6 million Jews died, but Jews weren't the only ones.

I also believe the term is killed, not murdered. Murder is a legal term. At the time, it was not illegal to kill these people. Thus, not murder.

I think that's where genocide comes in.

Secondly, ASU was a great, fun show, IMO. So don't state it as a fact...and if Priscella Presley thinks Elvis would have liked it...I think Elvis would have liked it.

And one more thing, if you want to you italics, < i > before the phrase... < / i > after it (no spaces)

Nice and clean italics!

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 10:58 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 1:23pm

Hunter--I had always heard the quote as passed down orally. Thank you for the exact wording.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 3:16pm

"TheEnchantedHunter, why have (you) posted your name three different ways in this thread, two as Americans (one male, one female) and one as a Russian Woman"

I'm all things to one man.


Tilde Kooeck
Amsterdam, The Netherlands

[sabrelady]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 7:34pm

So the Nuremburg tribunal had no jurisdiction to determine what constitutes murder legal or otherwise. This is gonna be a VERY touchey idea.
The thing is, for me, I wasn't thrilled by the the whole film anyway much less a live "recreation" w music! This is something that simply must not be trivialized by reducing it an entertainment.
P.S. U want education?- try Yad Vashem or any of the the other museums that document and memorialize this event.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 7:39pm

who says it is merely entertainment??

How many people have learned about what happened because of the film? Think about how this film will educate future generations. Think how a stage work could as well.

Art isn't just entertainment. It can rise to the grandest of occasions by educating and provoking thought.

I'm amazed this has to be said on a theatre chat board.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 7:44pm

something I didn't think I'd say, I agree with jrb.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 7:57pm

so JRB, it's ok then to have a musical about child molestation, or Rape, or say Jeffrey Dahmer: The Musical, just because it's serious and could be done?

No I agree with Jen......and her response took the words right out of my mouth

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 7:59pm

JRB is saying it's OK to do it if it can be done right...I think.

I'm sure if someone made it into a musical, there would be pleanty of people involved to make sure it is done right.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:08pm

Hmmmmmm. The 100% capacity Tony and Pulitzer winning DOUBT deals with child molestation...

PILLOWMAN dealt with child murder...

BENT dealt with gays in the Holocaust...

oh but those are plays (I don't see the difference between plays and musicals as they are all theatre) so:

TOMMY dealt with child molestation...

SWEENEY TODD dealt with cannabalism...

LES MIZ dealt with a bloody French insurrection...

MISS SAIGON and HAIR dealt with the Vietnam War...

THE COLOR PURPLE (upcoming)is a book filled with abuse, rape, racism...

JEKYL AND HYDE dealt with serial murder...

TITANIC dealt with the deaths of hundreds...

RUNAWAYS dealt with runaway kids, death, drugs, child prostitution...

RENT and QUILT dealt with AIDS...

I'm sure others can think of other horrific issues that have been tackled on the stage.

I stand by my statements.

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 08:08 PM

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:11pm

In your list, Rent probably comes closest to Schindler's list.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:18pm

I tend to think that almost anything can be dealt with in a musical -- but the Holocaust...I don't know. Not so much for sensitivity issues (I'm Jewish, so it is a sensitive subject for me), but more because I simply don't see how it can be done SERIOUSLY and done well. Mel Brooks got away with it because it was so ridiculous. But if a serious attempt were made at musicalizing it, and it wasn't done JUST right, it would flop as being insensitive or insulting. I can't imagine anyone having the guts to tackle it.

And besides, you couldn't go to it and make out with someone either, because that would be wrong.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:24pm

I think that's just it, jason. It's too sensitive for some people. I doubt this thread would have been as hot headed had it been about making GANDHI into a musical.

And, I still don't understand why BENT (describes HORRIFIC things and shows two deaths), CABARET (the revival ended in a gas chamber), DIARY OF ANNE FRANK (didn't SHOW anyone dying) and others are ok, but that this one just couldn't be done. Who says that any of the graphic scenes from the film would be put on stage? You can't transfer a film to stage. You have to adapt. You have to figure out that which will work in that genre. You can not show those images literally--it would have to be done in description or abstraction. It could focus on Schindler himself and what he did.

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 08:24 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:31pm

I don't know Bent, but the other two shows you mentioned do not focus so specifically on the travesties of the Holocaust. Well, actually, Anne Frank does, but it's not a musical. I don't think that would work as a musical either. Cabaret is only at the very start of the Third Reich's rise to power. The worst that really happens is a brick gets thrown through a window -- on stage, at any rate. I'm not saying that the Holocaust can't be dealt with - I actually think Life is Beautiful could potentially make a very good musical - but I don't think Schindler's List specifically because of the way it deals with those issues would work. If you took the atrocities out of the film, it would lose a lot of it's impact. If you do that, why bother? Schindler's story wouldn't be as affecting if it didn't have the flip side of the evils he was working against. THAT'S the part I seriously question as a musical or even opera.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 8:36pm

No, you don't take the atrocities out of Schindler's List--you just don't SHOW them. You find other ways to find the right balance. If I adapted this story:

1. First, I would read the book. I would imagine this would be more my source than the film.

2. I would focus on the essential aspects of the story: A man profiteers off of a horrible event and then redeems his soul by saving hundreds of lives.

3. I would probably use monologues to describe the terrible things--how does Oskar learn of these things? How does he realize what he must do?

4. I would use a composer who would create the same style of music John Williams used. I would want music that is indicative of the period and of the Jewish faith. I would want dramatic ballads to allow the characters to tell their story. It would always be respectful. The only "happy" numbers would be in the night club scenes where Oskar networks--and only to give the audience a breath and to show juxtaposition of how people could go on with their lives as if all of this horror wasn't taking place.

I would NOT recreate the film scene by scene. You can't. It wouldn't work on stage to do that.

Updated On: 7/12/05 at 08:36 PM

[JenD512]

Posted: 7/12/05 at 9:30pm

AGAIN, Jen, I think you are thinking musical and thinking tap dancing and love duets. I am thinking serious music. And, yes, it would be a musical that would be opera/operetta. Music has the ability to tell ANY story. The most heartwrenching music can tell its story. Imagine if the score was similar to John William's score for the film. That's the kind of musical I imagine.

NO, I am not. I've been going to musicals for 25 years...on Broadway, off-Broadway, Sondheim to Andrew Lloyd Webber, revivals to rock musicals, to opera. I like rock music, movie scories, and pop music. I perfectly understand the kind of musical you are talking about.

And I don't think it would work as a musical. The subject matter is awful. My sister worked at the movie theater when it was playing there--she said people would buy tons of food going in because it was a 3-hour movie, but afterwards they were cleaning up tons of uneaten food because no one was in the mood to eat watching it. True story.

And yes, it WAS murder...whatever legal-ese you want to use for the time. I think you'd find few people who'd disagree with that.

Secondly, ASU was a great, fun show, IMO. So don't state it as a fact...and if Priscella Presley thinks Elvis would have liked it...I think Elvis would have liked it.

I don't care what Elvis or Priscilla would have thought of it. I thought it was dreadful.