Schwartz vs. Sondheim — Page 2
#27
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:34pm
I am full aware that Sondheim only wrote the lyrics. I am doing West Side Story, so of course I know.
Alright then, lets say this. Into the Woods is no where near the calibur of Children of Eden. I'm speaking in melody, not lyrics.
Alright then, lets say this. Into the Woods is no where near the calibur of Children of Eden. I'm speaking in melody, not lyrics.
#28
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:34pm
Schwartz writes for the masses, while Sondheim writes for art's sake and creativity. Schwartz brings the mainstream to Broadway, while Sondheim provides theatre lovers with something yummy and complex to munch on.
"Are you sorry for civilization? I am sorry for it too." ~Coast of Utopia: Shipwreck
#29
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:36pm
Not to put Sondheim's music down, but he's always been much more of a lyricist than a composer.
What I love about Sondheim in what he says is that he KNOWS this. He knows he's complicated and he knows that to create the intricate rhymes he uses he needs music that is, more often than not, not "hummable." (though, I'm not sure what that means...)
What I love about Sondheim in what he says is that he KNOWS this. He knows he's complicated and he knows that to create the intricate rhymes he uses he needs music that is, more often than not, not "hummable." (though, I'm not sure what that means...)
#30
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:36pm
Don't get me wrong, I love Sweeney Todd, but I just don't think Sondheim is the God people make him out to be.
They constantly put down Schwartz for Wicked, yet praise anything that comes from Sondheim.
They constantly put down Schwartz for Wicked, yet praise anything that comes from Sondheim.
#31
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:36pm
INTO THE WOODS has some of the greatest melodies I've ever heard in a musical.
"I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about." - Oscar Wilde
#32
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:37pm
I think it's a matter of tastes. If you don't want to listen to scores that have to grow on you, that require some effort on the part of the listener, then you'll think Schwartz is better.
A little swash, a bit of buckle - you'll love it more than bread.
#33
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:37pm
BTW - Schwartz doesn't even write in the same "genre" of musical theatre as Sondheim.
Yeah, try saying you prefer LaChiusa to Sondheim...
Yeah, try saying you prefer LaChiusa to Sondheim...
#34
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:37pm
Giants in the Sky
Agony
Steps of the Palace
Children Will Listen
Stay With Me
No More
No One Is Alone
Yeah, complete crap.
Agony
Steps of the Palace
Children Will Listen
Stay With Me
No More
No One Is Alone
Yeah, complete crap.
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#35
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:38pm
Yes, I'm glad I used the words complete crap, Jasonf. Did I say it was bad? No. Did I say it was no where near the calibur of Children of Eden? Yes.
#36
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:39pm
Judas, did you start this thread just to have a fight with people who disagree with you?
#37
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:40pm
Nope, I'm just defending Schwartz. I'm not fighting with anyone, I'm not mad at anyone. As far as I am concerned we are just having a discussion, nothing more.
#38
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:40pm
Dude, you're not even spelling the word CALIBRE right.
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#40
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:43pm
Sondheim and Schwartz get along pretty well, as I recall. I know they both respect one anothers writing accomplishments and projects. It's unfair to compare their works. They're both very different composers, which is what can best sum up this thread. Schwartz writes for the people - he uses pop music that appeals to masses. Sondheim challenges people with material that often takes people off-guard and takes time to be appreciated...or doesn't get appreciated at all. If you want to choose Sondheim over that, okay. I personally love both. I'm pretty open with my composers and I think both are excellent in their own medium. To me, Sondheim's stuff is very polished, rich, and daring. And Schwartz is fun, emotional, and often powerful. Of my favorite shows of theirs, I choose "Wicked" and "Sweeney Todd".
#41
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:44pm
wow you are proving you aren't the brightest crayon in the box also...
#43
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:47pm
Now it gets personal.
Then the claws really come out.
Then Sueleen and Namo come to exploit your pain.
Then the claws really come out.
Then Sueleen and Namo come to exploit your pain.
#44
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:48pm
Don't worry BSoBW2, we are all theatre loving buddies 'round this thread. Isn't that right guys? 
#45
Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:50pm
Theatre??? That's what this board is for?
I've wasted SO much time....
I've wasted SO much time....
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#46
Posted: 4/18/06 at 11:54pm
I think Sondheim's okay. I wouldn't call him my favorite composer, but he does write some pretty good things. I can't stand "Follies" or "Pacific Overtures" but I like "Company" and "Into the Woods." I think Schwartz has a great knack for writing melodies. He has written some really good stuff in "Children of Eden" & "Wicked" - And the fact that he has not won a Tony has nothing to do with his talent.
#47
Posted: 4/19/06 at 12:00am
I think Pippin is one of Schwartz weaker shows musically. I liked his score for that horrid Geopetto 10 times better.
"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea."
-Marie Christine
#48
Posted: 4/19/06 at 12:01am
Yes, While Godspell, and Pippin are pretty good.
I find NOTHING special about Children of Eden. It's just reused pop melodies. It has the most random songs at the most random moments. INTO THE WOODS makes COE look and sound so amature.
Schwartz fans always have to make COE sound like some masterpiece. It's very mediocre. The Scwartz fans always use it as the one show to compare to Sondheim - and any Sondheim score makes COE sound like crap.
I find NOTHING special about Children of Eden. It's just reused pop melodies. It has the most random songs at the most random moments. INTO THE WOODS makes COE look and sound so amature.
Schwartz fans always have to make COE sound like some masterpiece. It's very mediocre. The Scwartz fans always use it as the one show to compare to Sondheim - and any Sondheim score makes COE sound like crap.
Updated On: 4/19/06 at 12:01 AM
#49
Posted: 4/19/06 at 12:06am
Right, Sondheim carefully emphasizes his lyrics with the melody. Each word falls in place where the note fits it.
Schwartz occassionally has melodies that are pretty to the ear, but they don't demonstrate character nearly as well.
Sondheim has specific themes for characters and ideas.
Schwartz just kind of feels the general mood of the song and runs.
Most Schwartz you leave the theater thinking "that was nice, I really liked it."
Most Sondheim either haves you considering the topic at hand (in the case of is more Bretchian style works a la Overtures or Assassins)and/or emotionally raw.
Schwartz occassionally has melodies that are pretty to the ear, but they don't demonstrate character nearly as well.
Sondheim has specific themes for characters and ideas.
Schwartz just kind of feels the general mood of the song and runs.
Most Schwartz you leave the theater thinking "that was nice, I really liked it."
Most Sondheim either haves you considering the topic at hand (in the case of is more Bretchian style works a la Overtures or Assassins)and/or emotionally raw.
"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea."
-Marie Christine
Updated On: 4/19/06 at 12:06 AM
#50
Posted: 4/19/06 at 12:28am
This is the danger of comparing: these composers are writing in completely different styles, and neither could top the other in their respective niches. And before you try and argue this point, no, The Baker's Wife is not a Sondheim-style show, and Merrily is not a Schwartz style show.
It's also ridiculous to argue that one style has more merit than another. They're just different, and both should be admired. Is Kiri Te Kanawa a better singer than Steven Tyler? You could argue yes, but not really, because they're not doing the same thing. They aren't running the same race, so how can one reach the finish line first.
And to pick a few lyrics from each to prove that one is better than another is stupid.
SCHWARTZ:
I knew I'd never know
That warm and loving glow,
Though I might wish with all my might.
No face as hideous as my face
Was ever meant for heaven's light.
But suddenly an angel has smiled at me
And kissed my cheek without a trace of fright.
I dare to dream that she might even care for me,
And as I ring these bells tonight,
My cold, dark tower seems so bright.
I swear it must be heaven's light.
SONDHEIM:
It's a wink and a wiggle and a giggle in the grass
And I'll trip the light fandango,
A pinch and a diddle in the middle of what passes by.
Just putting selective examples together doesn't represent either of them.
It's also ridiculous to argue that one style has more merit than another. They're just different, and both should be admired. Is Kiri Te Kanawa a better singer than Steven Tyler? You could argue yes, but not really, because they're not doing the same thing. They aren't running the same race, so how can one reach the finish line first.
And to pick a few lyrics from each to prove that one is better than another is stupid.
SCHWARTZ:
I knew I'd never know
That warm and loving glow,
Though I might wish with all my might.
No face as hideous as my face
Was ever meant for heaven's light.
But suddenly an angel has smiled at me
And kissed my cheek without a trace of fright.
I dare to dream that she might even care for me,
And as I ring these bells tonight,
My cold, dark tower seems so bright.
I swear it must be heaven's light.
SONDHEIM:
It's a wink and a wiggle and a giggle in the grass
And I'll trip the light fandango,
A pinch and a diddle in the middle of what passes by.
Just putting selective examples together doesn't represent either of them.
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