Sunday In The Park With George - Discussion

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:06pm

I've never been a huge Sondheim fan. I've never been able to full grasp his work. It seemed like the type of work that maybe I'd become more interested in as I got older, considering most of the parts are written for old actors. However, at my library I picked up the "Sunday in the Park..." and "Into the Woods" movies. I found both of them fascinating and a joy to watch, but I'd like to concentrate on "Sunday."
I've never been a fan of Bernadette Peter's voice, she won me over as I was watching this show. She gave a brillant and layered performance. I think her voice works great for this show, and she's a great actress. I've also never liked Mandy Patinkin's voice either, and I still don't. I still find it hard to listen to, but I think he makes some good actor choices, but I didn't find him all too compelling in the role.
I have to say that I think this is my favorite Sondheim score. It's so complex, but at the same time so simple. The two best songs from the show "We Do Not Belong Together" and "Move On" are so powerful and I love the simple chords that he ends "We Do Not..." with. He uses those same chords throughout the show. Beautiful.
The book of the show is really great too. I love the part where Dot says something along the lines of "George has Marie's ball. Go get the ball Marie." - that part is just so simple, but so layered.
I have a few questions though. I don't remember them explaining how Dot knew the gentleman she was standing next to during the painting. The man was the husband of the older lady with the kid. It didn't make sense to me why they would be standing together.
I didn't like the Act 2 opener. It seems like that song would have best been suited for Act 1, what was the point he was trying to make by putting it there? Was it to make it more visually appealing when we see Peters wheel out in costume and makeup as Marie? The idea that they did the costume change so quick, is that what they were going for?
And I didn't understand the point of the chromolobe (sp?)? What was it suppose to do and what was its purpose? It seemed to be just a big thing of nothing.
And I have to say that I really loved the sets. The show is way more technical than I would have pictured by just listening to the cast recording. Was the set designered intending for everything to be 2-D? I understand the painting part of it and all of Act 1, but the part where they revist the park in Act 2, the buildings were all so flat and it seemed like George was a giant walking through a dollhouse or something.

What are your thoughts on the show? Anything you noticed that you liked? I realized that I think I prefer Peter's take on the character more than the Russell's (I think?) on the new London recording. Russell has a tendency to belt everything, which I normally would prefer, and she does have a great belt, but I sort of like the more subtle take on it.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:16pm

It's my favorite show, tied with NINE, FOLLIES, and GYPSY.

I think it's brilliant, and Bernadette's finest performance.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:16pm

Well...I'd say it's one of the most boring shows I've ever seen, but then the Sondheim-gushers would jump all over me and say that I "just didn't get it."

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:17pm

You just didn't get it.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:17pm

See?

And for the record, I don't hate Sondheim. I like a lot of his shows, just not this one.
Updated On: 10/26/06 at 03:17 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:18pm

Hahaha.

It's not for everyone. No Sondheim shows are for everyone.

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:20pm

Mother's Younger Brother? How many times have you seen it? I love it now but was bored to tears the first 3 times I watched it.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:22pm

Munk, neither is any other show ever created.

I own the dvd, and I've watched it completely through at least 4 times over the years -- each time giving myself another chance to "get it," and finally understand what everyone's talking about. So far, no luck. That doesn't count the number of times I've started watching it but just couldn't bring myself to finish it. With the exception of a few songs, I find the score irritating to listen to, and the the story itself has never grabbed me.

Updated On: 10/26/06 at 03:22 PM

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:25pm

I used to feel like having "It's Hot Up Here" in the beginning of Act II was a little jarring and weird structurally, but I actually really like it that way now. Because it certainly wouldn't fit into Act I. I always thought it was supposed to show the passage of time: we saw the vision of George's painting in Act I, we saw it happen... now it's the second act and the painting is there, and it's been there for a very long time, and they're stuck in it, and it's hot up there, and boom - now it's the 1980s, hey Mandy Patinkin, looks like you shaved your beard.

I like it. :)

[Kitzarina]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:26pm

I don't remember them explaining how Dot knew the gentleman she was standing next to during the painting.

He is Jules, George's "famous artist friend." She has had to endure social situations with him and his wife and claims that she hates both of them.

I didn't like the Act 2 opener. It seems like that song would have best been suited for Act 1, what was the point he was trying to make by putting it there?

While I can't say exactly WHY he put it there, I find it to be a lovely transition from Act 1 to Act 2. It explains art from the point of view of the painting itself. This provides a very smooth transition from the point of view of the organic process that takes place while creating art to the business side of art that is explored more thoroughly in the second act. Art isn't easy when you create it, ARE it, or when you're trying to make a living doing it.

And I didn't understand the point of the chromolobe

It is actually chromolume and I have always viewed it as a representation of the kind of art that was making a splash around the time "Sunday in the Park With George" was being created. Plus it is a lovely way of showing the literal translation of Seraut's use of science to create shimmering color and light through his paints. The George of act 2 is dealing with literal beams of color and light; no less moving or glorious than the effect that Seraut was attempting to create.

The more I encounter this show, the more I absolutely love it. It puts me in a trance more than any other show (with the possible exception of "The Light in the Piazza"). When I listen to "Sunday in the Park With George," I feel as if my entire being is being enveloped in beauty, color, light, and harmony. It is truly one of the most rapturous experiences I have ever had. It's hard to put into words the sheer connection to the beauty of life that I feel. "Sunday in the Park With George" helps me to understand that God must exist...where else could such transcendent beauty and love come from? Certainly not from mankind.

Wow...maybe I have given Sondheim too much credit, but "Sunday" is glorious from the very first chime to the very last line.

[Patronus]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:32pm

Wow...maybe I have given Sondheim too much credit, but "Sunday" is glorious from the very first chime to the very last line.

Bite your tounge, Miss Kitzy! It's impossible to give Sondheim too much credit when it comes to SITPWG. Absolutely stunning piece.

[Kitzarina]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:33pm

I take back my disclaimer. I am completely enraptured of "Sunday in the Park With George" and I don't care who knows it

[TomMonster]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:40pm

One of my favorite shows and scores!

A bit of trivia: Sondheim had the painting taped to his piano during the writing process. It took him as long to write the score as it took Seurat to paint his masterpiece--nearly 2 years. The original orchestrations used 12 instruments--the same number of colors used by Seurat. If you listen carefully, Sondheim only uses note clusters of 3, like the painting until the end of Act I when the entire orchestra and painting come together.

Truly brilliant masterwork!

[Ciaron McCarthy]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:42pm

Sunday is a pretty hard show to get to know. I saw the OBC and hated it!! My father thought it was the second coming! He was just happy Sondheim found a better bookwriter in Lapine than for his previous effort (Merrily).

It is a fantastic show. The score is directly intertwined with the book. I believe it was one of the first shows to do that. It is also a very sad show. George's inability to find balance in his life is heartbreaking. Anyone who is an artist or loves artwork can certainly appreciate songs like "Finishing the Hat" which takes you right into the mind of an artist. That song still blows me away. I also think this is Sondheims most autobiographical show. After all Sondheim was a lot like Saurat . Their works were critiqued almost the same. By this I mean from a distance Saurats work looks like impressionistic when in fact it was pointillism. Most people see Sondheims work as one thing when it is, in fact, another.

The real genius of this show and a fact most people don't take enough about is the whole dissonant counterpoint and punctuation of the music. There is almost no melodic flow to the music. The melodies come from the actors voices. I think it is a brilliant move!! I also think it is why it won the Pulitzer. There is almost no character development and zero dramatic tension. All things much needed for a normal musical to work. This is certainly not a normal musical (Thank God).

Interesting side note regarding "Sunday"

Sondheim had decided that "Merrily We Roll Along" would be his last musical and he was going to devote the remainder of his life in other areas.

[FoscasBohemianDream]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:46pm

I'm glad you enjoyed this show, RentBoy. Based on the filmed performance, I'm inclined to think Dot is Peters' best portrayal of any role she has played on Broadway (though I never saw her in Mack & Mabel, Song & Dance, La Strata, or On the Town). I just think Dot and Peters were the perfect marriage of character and performer. Though I find Jenna Russell's Dot very touching on the London recording, to me Peters captured Dot in the same unique way that Angela Lansbury captured Mrs.Lovett in Sweeney Todd or Christine Ebersole captures Little Edie in Grey Gardens.
"It's Hot Up Here" to me feels like it doesn't belong in Act I, and yet does not seem to belong at the beginning of Act II just because that act is not about Seurat's time period. However, the number itself does add to some of the major themes about making art, the subject(s) of a work of art, and George himself. I particularly find Dot's solo during this number quite touching and Peters delivers it with such warmth and traces of pain.
I believe the placing of Jules next to Dot in the painting connects to the theme behind "It's Hot Up Here." We do not know this people, we look at the painting and perhaps we imagine that they're friends, family, a couple maybe. However, in Act I the audience learns Dot's contempt for Jules. The person people think she is close to is actually someone she dislikes. You could also connect it to George's obsession with harmony. He wanted to create a perfectly balanced painting neglecting the feelings of his subjects, only worrying about his art.
I've always considered the Chromolume to be a comment on where art was heading. Before Sunday in the Park with George was conceived, Sondheim had decided to quit Broadway for the time being after the failure of Merrily We Roll Along (16 performances). I imagine he must've felt very cynical about the "state of the art." The Chromolume is an example of how technical and how mundane art was becoming. There's a line in which George's partner tells him that he is quitting to go work at NASA because the job with George was too much pressure. This is what the Chromolume is about. The scene where there's a technical failure was an exact prediction of what has been happening on Broadway. How many times was a performance of Sunset Blvd. cancelled or delayed because the mansion could not rise? How about yesterday's performance of Mary Poppins? That's the reason (or one of them) behind the Chromolume.
Updated On: 10/26/06 at 03:46 PM

[TomMonster]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:54pm

Just to add to the Chromolume discussion: the word literally means "Color and Light" and continues the thematic approach of Seurat's work. They actually did hire a NASA engineer to invent a safe Lasar effect for use in the show. It was pretty cool in the theatre, and of course doesn't really translate on the DVD. The beams actually bounced all around the theatre and suddenly you were surrounded by the color and light. The irony, and the point of the second act, is that this was modern George just repeating himself. He had to look to the past in order to move on into his own future as an artist.

[Ciaron McCarthy]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 3:58pm

FoscaBoheme did you get to see Audra McDonald as "Dot"? Audra is the best Dot there has ever been! Amazing!!

If anyone wants the recording let me know.

[FoscasBohemianDream]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:05pm

Ciaron, in the case of Audra as Dot, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:07pm

You know, I loved Audra. Like, a lot. But comparing her to Bernadette is not fair because you just can't compare anyone to Bernadette. Audra was an amazing, fantastic Dot. Bernadette was Dot. She just was.

[Ciaron McCarthy]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:08pm

Ciaron, in the case of Audra as Dot, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Noooooo! This upsets me. I take it you didn't like her? She was brilliant!!

[TomMonster]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:15pm

Audra was brilliant, Ciaron.

Still, since the part was conceived and written for Bernie, it's hard for me to remain objective. She will always be my Dot! Not only did this role change her career, it also changed the opinion of many people. She then was taken seriously as one of Broadways greats!

However, Audra was wonderful too! (Can't wait for 110!)

[GYPSY1527]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:29pm

"Sondheim had decided that "Merrily We Roll Along" would be his last musical and he was going to devote the remainder of his life in other areas. "

I believe science fiction novels, no?

Just to say something about SITPWG, when I first got the DVD set of Sondheim musicals, I was sure that Sunday was too artistic, remote, unrelatable for me. Non the less, I decided to bring it with me to a babysitting job and watch it once the kids went to sleep. Well by the end of act 1 I was bawling with tears. It was such an unexpected emotional experience...
My favorite song from the show would have to be "Children and Art" due to its lyrical content and melody. Everything about that song is gorgeous and I actually count it as one of my top five (yes, I have a top five) Sondheim songs.

"The Chromolume is an example of how technical and how mundane art was becoming. There's a line in which George's partner tells him that he is quitting to go work at NASA because the job with George was too much pressure. This is what the Chromolume is about. The scene where there's a technical failure was an exact prediction of what has been happening on Broadway. How many times was a performance of Sunset Blvd. cancelled or delayed because the mansion could not rise? How about yesterday's performance of Mary Poppins? That's the reason (or one of them) behind the Chromolume. "

Dude, thats just brillant. Nice job Fosca, I would have never seen the relationship between the two before this!

[algy]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:31pm

I'd borrowed Sunday on CD from my library earlier this year, and just not got it at all, but I decided to get a student standby and go and see the London production just because everyone was raving about it, just so I could say that I'd seen it. I didn't go in with high hopes of it as I'd not really enjoyed the touring version of Sweeney that I saw, but came out a total convert, humming Sunday under my breath.

Can't explain why I like it, but I really do.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:42pm

I'm an Audra fan but not of her in SUNDAY (at least on the audio I heard) she comes across as so strong, and the character really needs to be insecure and vulnerable, IMO.

[Ciaron McCarthy]

Posted: 10/26/06 at 4:45pm

I dont think Dot is vulnerable at all! Or at least not as vulnerable as I've heard mentioned here. George is the one who is vulnerable. Dot is unexposed. However, she grows stronger with every word she learns to read. We shouldn't confuse her love for George as weakness.