#26
Posted: 6/21/12 at 10:05am
This theory seems so out there that next, people will be saying that Raul Esparza lost his Tony for Company because Bernadette was the presenter.
The Odd Relationship between Bernadette Peters and the Tony Awards — Page 2
#27
Posted: 6/21/12 at 10:23am
As far as Gypsy, as I recall she had a lot of health and vocal issues very early in the run, which would have been when many of the Tony voters saw her. When you take that into consideration it's not nearly as surprising that she didn't win that year.
#28
Posted: 6/21/12 at 10:41am
Ok, I'm just going to be honest and let the chips fall where they may.
Bernadette has had more of a career than she deserved. She's played roles she never should have been cast in.
As an actress, she never could handle deep material. She never bothered to get her lisp corrected. Her singing voice is very average compared to what her peers have - LuPone, Buckley etc. She's always been a glorified flora-dora girl or a grown-up Cindy Brady.
Her recent Broadway credits:
Follies - she did ok, but didn't own the role
ALNM, Gypsy, AGYG - she was miscast
Goodbye Girl was a mess and not her fault
She was good in Into the Woods
She was ok in Sunday Act 1, Sunday Act 2 showed her weaknesses
I cringe everytime someone says she is the chief interpreter of Sondheim and I go put on my "Cleo Laine Sings Sondheim" cd.
Bernadette has had more of a career than she deserved. She's played roles she never should have been cast in.
As an actress, she never could handle deep material. She never bothered to get her lisp corrected. Her singing voice is very average compared to what her peers have - LuPone, Buckley etc. She's always been a glorified flora-dora girl or a grown-up Cindy Brady.
Her recent Broadway credits:
Follies - she did ok, but didn't own the role
ALNM, Gypsy, AGYG - she was miscast
Goodbye Girl was a mess and not her fault
She was good in Into the Woods
She was ok in Sunday Act 1, Sunday Act 2 showed her weaknesses
I cringe everytime someone says she is the chief interpreter of Sondheim and I go put on my "Cleo Laine Sings Sondheim" cd.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Updated On: 6/21/12 at 10:41 AM
#29
Posted: 6/21/12 at 10:49am
Oooooh snap
#30
Posted: 6/21/12 at 2:36pm
With the amount of laymen on this board who didn't like Bernadette in Follies, I find it hard to believe anyone can really think it was some kind conspiratorial slap that she wasn't nominated. Is it not possible that they that loved her in it were blinded by their love for her and didn't notice she was giving a mediocre performance?
#31
Posted: 6/21/12 at 2:44pm
Maybe they did like it. Or they were just being kind. Or they were losing their minds.
#32
Posted: 6/21/12 at 2:47pm
For those who feel like Bernadette has been jerked around by the Tony Awards need not look further than these two words.
JAN. MAXWELL.
JAN. MAXWELL.
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#33
Posted: 6/21/12 at 4:47pm
As an actress, she never could handle deep material.
I think it's the opposite. She's given extraordinary depth to almost all the characters she's played in their quieter moments. It's the larger moments where she easily slips into overacting. As far as I'm concerned, her two best performances were Dot/Marie and Desiree.
I think it's the opposite. She's given extraordinary depth to almost all the characters she's played in their quieter moments. It's the larger moments where she easily slips into overacting. As far as I'm concerned, her two best performances were Dot/Marie and Desiree.
#34
Posted: 6/21/12 at 5:47pm
There are quite a few examples of actress who are strongly identified with a role for which they did not win a Tony. Streisand in Funny Girl, Chita in WSS, Gwen Verdon in Sweet Charity, Julie Andrews in My Fair Lady and Merman in Gypsy, just to name a few. In most of those cases it was the result of competition from other iconic actresses/roles.
Updated On: 6/21/12 at 05:47 PM
#35
Posted: 6/21/12 at 6:12pm
And as for SUNDAY, Peters was delightful and I realize it is now considered a legendary show.
But most people (those with industry contacts because no one else could get in) who saw SUNDAY at Playwright's Horizons didn't see Act II because it wasn't ready to be viewed until the final few weeks.
Then at the opening night, which again was heavily papered with industry personnel, the snoring around me grew deafening during Act II, only to be interrupted by heckling during the laser show. The general theme of conversation at Joe Allen's afterwards was that Sondheim had lost his mind after the first act and where was Hal Prince when you needed him?
It really took a Herculean effort by Frank Rich in the TIMES to convince everyone that what we had seen showed genius. And it wouldn't surprise me if Tony voters weren't as enraptured with Peters then as we all are now.
But most people (those with industry contacts because no one else could get in) who saw SUNDAY at Playwright's Horizons didn't see Act II because it wasn't ready to be viewed until the final few weeks.
Then at the opening night, which again was heavily papered with industry personnel, the snoring around me grew deafening during Act II, only to be interrupted by heckling during the laser show. The general theme of conversation at Joe Allen's afterwards was that Sondheim had lost his mind after the first act and where was Hal Prince when you needed him?
It really took a Herculean effort by Frank Rich in the TIMES to convince everyone that what we had seen showed genius. And it wouldn't surprise me if Tony voters weren't as enraptured with Peters then as we all are now.
#36
Posted: 6/21/12 at 6:13pm
I think that the 5 ladies who were nominated for Best Actress in a Musical this season were the 5 who shold have been. That said, it is only my opinion. For me, BP was the weakest link of the principal cast.....I never for a moment could see anything but Bernadette in the show....she didn't create a character that allowed me to see somebody other than the legendary star. I felt the same about Patti LuPone in GYPSY. It is a fascinating thing that happens when an actor becomes an icon....it can keep them from being able to create a new persona...or at least it can keep the audience from seeing it. It is sad in a way.
For me it is a far better thing for a performer to NOT be nominated or at least NOT win for a marginal performance, than to be nominated simply because they are an icon. The 2 awards that BP does have are in my opinion not for her best work, and because of that the asterisk argument can be made.
ALl of this is just part of the 'Awards' thing.....there really are no awards that are completely based on quality in part because you just cannot establish a 'best' anything. It isn't like a sporting event where there is some sort of scoring system, so it will always be subjective. Politics, sentiment, and popularity always factor in.
For me it is a far better thing for a performer to NOT be nominated or at least NOT win for a marginal performance, than to be nominated simply because they are an icon. The 2 awards that BP does have are in my opinion not for her best work, and because of that the asterisk argument can be made.
ALl of this is just part of the 'Awards' thing.....there really are no awards that are completely based on quality in part because you just cannot establish a 'best' anything. It isn't like a sporting event where there is some sort of scoring system, so it will always be subjective. Politics, sentiment, and popularity always factor in.
#37
Posted: 6/21/12 at 6:28pm
undercoveractor, my husband says the same thing about Peters in EVERY performance, that she's always the same and her peculiarities (particularly the lisp) keep her from ever really becoming a role.
I don't agree, but such opinions do exist in the world.
I don't agree, but such opinions do exist in the world.
#38
Posted: 6/22/12 at 11:29am
Didn't Peters remove herself from consideration for "Into the Woods," because she was only in it a few months? I didn't think that was a snub by the committee.
Actually, Peters stepped into the role with the understanding that she could only stay a brief time due to a film commitment. After the opening, it was announced that the movie she was supposed to be making was postponed (cancelled?) and she was able to extend her stay with WOODS although she was out of the show a few months before the Tony nominations that year an the producers decided to submit Joanna Gleason as their nominee in the leading actress/musical category. Variety reported at the time that the decision was made by mutual consent between Peters and the producers. As it worked out Peters ended up presenting the award to Gleason.
SUNDAY opened the day before the cut off for the 1984 Tony nominations, and led into the awards with the most nominations of any musical that season. It was heavily favored to win Best musical, but most insiders correctly predicted Chita Rivera would (finally) win her first Tony for THE RINK. (George Hearn was considered a lock on best Actor/musical for LA CAGE.)
Peters has been a regular participant in the Tony Awards ceremonies as a performer and presenter. Her participation this year was surprisingly limited, even with her special award, which was presented before the telecast and shown only in a 30-second excerpt.
Actually, Peters stepped into the role with the understanding that she could only stay a brief time due to a film commitment. After the opening, it was announced that the movie she was supposed to be making was postponed (cancelled?) and she was able to extend her stay with WOODS although she was out of the show a few months before the Tony nominations that year an the producers decided to submit Joanna Gleason as their nominee in the leading actress/musical category. Variety reported at the time that the decision was made by mutual consent between Peters and the producers. As it worked out Peters ended up presenting the award to Gleason.
SUNDAY opened the day before the cut off for the 1984 Tony nominations, and led into the awards with the most nominations of any musical that season. It was heavily favored to win Best musical, but most insiders correctly predicted Chita Rivera would (finally) win her first Tony for THE RINK. (George Hearn was considered a lock on best Actor/musical for LA CAGE.)
Peters has been a regular participant in the Tony Awards ceremonies as a performer and presenter. Her participation this year was surprisingly limited, even with her special award, which was presented before the telecast and shown only in a 30-second excerpt.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#39
Posted: 6/26/12 at 2:03am
Sometimes it's better not to think about these things. I'm sure Bernadette isn't.
#40
Posted: 8/26/12 at 8:30pm
Was just thinking about this topic, and decided to revisit it, especially with regard to Into the Woods...
Peters was nominated for the Drama Desk Award for Leading Actress in a Musical. Joanna Gleason won the DD for Featured Actress (and Danielle Ferland was nominated in the same category), beating Judy Kaye, who eventually won the Featured Actress Tony for Phantom (well deserved). Interesting how all of this turned around come Tony season, with Patti being bumped by Gleason for the leading actress Tony, etc. Why didn't Peters submit for the Tony if she submitted for the Drama Desk?
Peters was nominated for the Drama Desk Award for Leading Actress in a Musical. Joanna Gleason won the DD for Featured Actress (and Danielle Ferland was nominated in the same category), beating Judy Kaye, who eventually won the Featured Actress Tony for Phantom (well deserved). Interesting how all of this turned around come Tony season, with Patti being bumped by Gleason for the leading actress Tony, etc. Why didn't Peters submit for the Tony if she submitted for the Drama Desk?
#41
Posted: 8/26/12 at 8:42pm
That she was not nominated for Follies was a petty slap, that's all. A power trip, if you will. Sure, why not stick it to a wonderful performer who acted the hell out of the role, and who has also been tireless in her charitable efforts?
Real nice world we live in.
Is this just a gut feeling or do you have any evidence for this, After Eight? I'm not trying to be contrary here, I just don't understand how you would know the above.
Peters' performance was pretty roundly condemned on this board, even by many who have loved her in other roles. And we might compare Peters to Paige, who also wasn't nominated after a serious of lukewarm to negative reviews.
***
(The following isn't addressed to After Eight's post...)
I don't doubt that voters (be they Oscar, Tony or Emmy voters) will reward a beloved star in a year when none of the performances attract a groundswell of appreciation. But trying to analyze Peter's Tony history without even mentioning her competition seems a dubious exercise.
Henrik's mention of Chita Rivera was very apt. Of course Miss Rivera is still revered today, but nothing compares to the way she was idolized in the 70s and 80s. Along with her triumph in CHICAGO, she toured a Broadway-oriented nightclub act that anyone-who-was-anyone saw many times. FWIW, she was also very, very good in THE RINK, despite that show's problems.
I'd have no complaint had Peters won that year, but neither do I find anything amiss in Rivera's win.
Real nice world we live in.
Is this just a gut feeling or do you have any evidence for this, After Eight? I'm not trying to be contrary here, I just don't understand how you would know the above.
Peters' performance was pretty roundly condemned on this board, even by many who have loved her in other roles. And we might compare Peters to Paige, who also wasn't nominated after a serious of lukewarm to negative reviews.
***
(The following isn't addressed to After Eight's post...)
I don't doubt that voters (be they Oscar, Tony or Emmy voters) will reward a beloved star in a year when none of the performances attract a groundswell of appreciation. But trying to analyze Peter's Tony history without even mentioning her competition seems a dubious exercise.
Henrik's mention of Chita Rivera was very apt. Of course Miss Rivera is still revered today, but nothing compares to the way she was idolized in the 70s and 80s. Along with her triumph in CHICAGO, she toured a Broadway-oriented nightclub act that anyone-who-was-anyone saw many times. FWIW, she was also very, very good in THE RINK, despite that show's problems.
I'd have no complaint had Peters won that year, but neither do I find anything amiss in Rivera's win.
Updated On: 8/26/12 at 08:42 PM
#42
Posted: 8/27/12 at 12:04am
trying to analyze Peter's Tony history without even mentioning her competition seems a dubious exercise.
Beat me to the punch! Exactly my thought, Gaveston, while reading this whole thread.
Beat me to the punch! Exactly my thought, Gaveston, while reading this whole thread.
#43
Posted: 8/27/12 at 12:55am
Sometimes... it just happens.
Peter O'Toole will never win an Oscar.
In some ways, Bernadette is luckier than many Tony winners- her performances in Sunday in the Park and Into the Woods have been preserved for the masses on video. They will be seen by more people than most Tony-winning performances ever will or can be. It's easy to look at those performances now and be outraged she didn't win. But hindsight is deceptive.
Peter O'Toole will never win an Oscar.
In some ways, Bernadette is luckier than many Tony winners- her performances in Sunday in the Park and Into the Woods have been preserved for the masses on video. They will be seen by more people than most Tony-winning performances ever will or can be. It's easy to look at those performances now and be outraged she didn't win. But hindsight is deceptive.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#44
Posted: 8/27/12 at 1:02am
Irene Dunne never won an Oscar. Cary Grant's only Oscar was an honorary one. Some years are brimming with amazing performances that fill the nomination and winner slots and are hard to call. Some years are not as strong, and performances that people have lesser opinions about get the awards.
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