Posted: 6/29/19 at 4:19am
Not ALL the drama is on Broadway.
datebook.sfchronicle.com/theater/bay-area-debut-of-harry-potter-uncertain-after-court-ruling-in-dispute-between-shn-and-the-curran
More to follow.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 4:22am
From Nederlander:
prnewswire.com/news-releases/nederlander-san-francisco-nsf-llc-secures-decisive-legal-victory-in-san-francisco-theater-dispute-300877848.html
Remember kids, just cut-and-paste into your browser.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 4:27am
You get the drift?
celebrityaccess.com/2019/06/28/nederlander-san-francisco-wins-legal-ruling-in-touring-broadway-case/
Posted: 6/29/19 at 4:32am
"Where is Atticus Finch when we REALLY need him?" - Carole Shorenstein Hays
lawandcrime.com/high-profile/fiasco-state-supreme-court-appears-to-believe-theater-producers-deposition-was-the-worst-ever/
Posted: 6/29/19 at 4:37am
Just like Judy, she's gonna stay up all night and sing 'em ALL!
This is public record. The "good stuff" starts around page 51: courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=291370
Posted: 6/29/19 at 6:32am
While I don't love CSH and what she did to the Curran post reno (auditorium is fine, the spray painted lobby walls are another..), I have infinitely less love for SHNSF. Between Hamilton, Wicked, Lion King and Aladdin, plus almost every other huge Broadway show, SHNSF is doing fine, will always do fine etc.
Healthy competition in this industry is always a good thing, and the initial separation agreement CSH made when she parted from SHNSF turned out to be disastrous not only for CSH and the Curran but also the San Francisco theatre goers who will miss out on a show that SHNSF doesn't want to book, but since it is a Broadway Tour it can't play the Curran.
As for CSH - After reading her answers in the deposition, I wonder if there is any kind of diminished capacity happening there. She also could just be a master at avoidance and charming hostility.. but some of those answers would lead me to believe that something isn't right..
I hope The Ambassador Group is allowed to open HP as planned and do a major FOH renovation similarly to what they did at the Lyric, the Keith Haring motif and graffiti doesn't match the splendor of the building or its auditorium.
:Edit: with a question for SF locals.. is there a similar Bay Area non-compete clause that prevents Oakland from presenting a Broadway series? Does San Jose get nicked by this too?
Either way.. what a MESS.
Updated On: 6/29/19 at 06:32 AM
Posted: 6/29/19 at 8:39am
I happen to really like the lobby and the Keith Haring-inspired design.
Wow, that deposition, though. I can't imagine how they thought that was going to fly.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 12:06pm
This is sort of crazy. I wonder what Ambassador Theatre Group (post-POTTER) will do with the space if they can't present major tours in it? Maybe one-off productions and concerts and non-Eq tours?
Either way, it's a good move for ATG and seems like a very great thing that CSH is stepping down from a decision-making/leadership role.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 2:11pm
I hope this works out well for the Curran in the future and it gets a regular stream of shows coming in. It’s my absolute favorite of the three big commercial houses here. Slightly better/safer part of town at night than the Golden Gate and Orpheum, with better restaurant and nightclub options pre- and post-show. There is a crowded excited buzz those nights when both the Curran and ACT next door have 8pm curtains. And I have great memories of seeing the sit-downs of Phantom and Les Mis multiple times back when I lived about five blocks away up Nob Hill.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 3:31pm
Does anyone here know why Carole responded to the deposition in the way that she did? It's absolutely absurd and must be rooted in some reasoning. Had she lost already? It's hilarious to read, but clearly she's not trying to win at that point.
I'm very upset about this news. The Curran going under Carole's independent control was the best thing to happen to SF theatre in a long while. I hope ATG continues her vision.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 3:46pm
Posted: 6/29/19 at 3:56pm
Don, thanks for posting the court records. Just read the deposition responses. LOL I’d love to a video this! Or can some actors recreate it? Calling Christine Pedi or Marilyn Sokol!
Posted: 6/29/19 at 5:26pm
Ledaero said: "Had she lost already? It's hilarious to read, but clearly she's not trying to win at that point."
One of the articles said ATG signed the lease on June 11, and the Delaware Supreme Court made its decision on June 20. I don't know when she said all that crazy stuff in court, but turning it over to ATG must have already been in the works at that point.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 5:38pm
Ledaero said: "Does anyone here know why Carole responded to the deposition in the way that she did? It's absolutely absurd and must be rooted in some reasoning. Had she lost already? It's hilarious to read, but clearly she's not trying to win at that point.
I'm very upset about this news. The Curran going under Carole's independent control was the best thing to happen to SF theatre in a long while. I hope ATG continues her vision."
Lettuce just say that "Things Go Better With Coke!" has been her motto for far too long.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 5:45pm
RoadGypsy2010 said: "While I don't love CSH and what she did to the Curran post reno (auditorium is fine, the spray painted lobby walls are another..), I have infinitely less love for SHNSF. Between Hamilton, Wicked, Lion King and Aladdin, plusalmost every other huge Broadway show, SHNSF is doing fine, will always do fine etc.
Healthy competition in this industryis always a good thing, and the initial separation agreement CSH made when she parted from SHNSF turned out to be disastrous not only for CSH andthe Curran but also the San Francisco theatre goers who willmiss out on a show that SHNSF doesn't want to book, but since it is a Broadway Tour it can't play the Curran.
As for CSH - After reading her answers in the deposition, I wonder if there is any kind of diminished capacity happening there. She also could just be a master at avoidance and charming hostility.. but some of those answers would lead me to believe that something isn't right..
I hope The Ambassador Groupisallowed to open HP as planned and do a major FOH renovation similarly to what they did at the Lyric, the Keith Haring motif and graffiti doesn't match the splendor of the building or its auditorium.
:Edit: with a question for SF locals..is there a similar Bay Areanon-compete clause that prevents Oakland from presenting a Broadway series? Does San Jose get nicked by this too?
Either way.. what a MESS."
I understand that SJ does get nicked by this...but there was an exception made with Mary Poppins waay back. Wicked had the Orpheum locked down and Disney decided to open MP in SJ. I understand that the box office did not do all that well.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 5:52pm
Posted: 6/29/19 at 6:59pm
LizzieCurry said: "I've been wondering about Oakland and why there haven't been tours there — at least in my lifetime! My parents saw the tour of The Wiz at the Fox in downtown Oakland back in the '70s."
The Fox has no backstage to speak of and the acoustics are horrible. It occasionally gets very scaled down, bus-and-truck tours like The Wiz and they are abysmal. Sad, because it is a gorgeous theatre.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 7:20pm
PatrickDC said: "I hope this works out well for the Curran in the future and it gets a regular stream of shows coming in. It’s my absolute favorite of the three big commercial houses here. Slightly better/saferpart of town at night than the Golden Gate and Orpheum, with better restaurant and nightclub options pre- and post-show. There is a crowded excited buzz those nights when both the Curran and ACT next door have 8pm curtains.And I have great memories of seeing the sit-downs of Phantom and Les Mis multiple times back when I lived about five blocks away up Nob Hill."
I go back to the Phantom and Les Miz days as well. The Curran remodel was great for the house, but the front of house areas just don't do it for me. I'm assuming they will be completed dressed and/or remodeled for Harry Potter.
The thing that has irked me the most since the Curran reopened is all management personnel seem to be novices and/or theatre major volunteers. Fine for a non-profit or community theatre, but totally unacceptable for a major theatre. Witness the deposition, you can have tons of money and enthusiasm, but you need true professionals involved to market your aspirations. That has been sadly lacking [behind the scenes] for lo these many years. The tales I could tell....but I won't.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 7:32pm
The upper management and GMs that CSH brought in from NY to reopen the Curran were dreadful. The FOH teams had no support from their upper management. There was an AMAZING house manager there early on who was pushed out despite their fantastic customer service and attention to the issues the missed-opportunity renovation created.
Anyone who has been there recently, have they installed restroom/elevator direction signs, pointing patrons to the lower level (the only ADA option, with the elevator being installed where the former ADA main level restroom was..) and upper level restrooms? They didn't want to ruin the 'aesthetic' post reno with pesky things like informational or directional signage, despite dozens of people looking confused and lost.
I hope the Ambassador Group has cleaned house and started fresh like they have been able to in their other acquisitions.
Posted: 6/29/19 at 8:30pm
She's a person who has never had to want for anything her entire life, a trust fund baby (not so baby) and clearly she's an entitled little twit who DID make a mockery of that deposition and happily she had to pay for it, not that she cares about anything concerning money. This is what you get when you are given everything you've ever gotten in life. I find her completely repulsive in just about every way.
Posted: 6/30/19 at 1:42am
Sho-Tunes-R-Us said: "RoadGypsy2010 said: "While I don't love CSH and what she did to the Curran post reno (auditorium is fine, the spray painted lobby walls are another..), I have infinitely less love for SHNSF. Between Hamilton, Wicked, Lion King and Aladdin, plusalmost every other huge Broadway show, SHNSF is doing fine, will always do fine etc.
Healthy competition in this industryis always a good thing, and the initial separation agreement CSH made when she parted from SHNSF turned out to be disastrous not only for CSH andthe Curran but also the San Francisco theatre goers who willmiss out on a show that SHNSF doesn't want to book, but since it is a Broadway Tour it can't play the Curran.
As for CSH - After reading her answers in the deposition, I wonder if there is any kind of diminished capacity happening there. She also could just be a master at avoidance and charming hostility.. but some of those answers would lead me to believe that something isn't right..
I hope The Ambassador Groupisallowed to open HP as planned and do a major FOH renovation similarly to what they did at the Lyric, the Keith Haring motif and graffiti doesn't match the splendor of the building or its auditorium.
:Edit: with a question for SF locals..is there a similar Bay Areanon-compete clause that prevents Oakland from presenting a Broadway series? Does San Jose get nicked by this too?
Either way.. what a MESS."
I understand that SJ does get nicked by this...but there was an exception made with Mary Poppins waay back. Wicked had the Orpheum locked down and Disney decided to open MP in SJ. I understand that the box office did not do all that well."
Since 2009 and the AMTSJ bankruptcy, Broadway San Jose has been managed/booked by Nederlander. It obviously has no interest in damaging its healthy SHN business, so BSJ has typically focused on tours 2-3after they pass through the City. However, it seems the business is growing and management is trying to grow it from a 1-week to 2-week market. This upcoming season has Come From Away and Miss Saigon, both only one season after SHN. So they’ll never compete, but it seems Nederlander is viewing San Jose as less likely to impact SHN.
For those interested, I’m told the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons are going to be bigger than this upcoming season, which I think is already much better than a normal SJ season.
Posted: 6/30/19 at 7:08am
Depending on how long their lease is, I don't see why ATG couldn't bring shows in, since they don't have a non-competitive clause with SHN.
But that said, ATG is't a booking company.
One thing is, I guess that answers the questions about whether they'll make some physical changes to the Curran for Potter.
Posted: 6/30/19 at 10:07am
BJR said: "Depending on how long their lease is, I don't see why ATG couldn't bring shows in, since they don't have a non-competitive clause with SHN."
Carole still owns the Curran, she's just not programming it and running the day-to-day business. The ruling bars her and her "affiliates" from presenting competing Broadway tours at the Curran, so I would think ATG falls under "affiliates."
Posted: 6/30/19 at 1:46pm
(I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but if they have and I missed it, I apologize)
Another angle on this issue is the respective sizes of the theatres. At over 1,600 seats, the Curran is larger than your average Broadway house, but it is also significantly smaller than The Orpheum and the Golden Gate, both of which have over 2,200 seats (significantly larger than any Broadway house). Not to mention that massive performing arts center in San Jose, which is almost 2,700 seats. The Curran provided the only opportunity for Bay Area audiences to see smaller Broadway productions in a theatre that is even remotely size-appropriate.
Posted: 6/30/19 at 11:55pm
JBroadway said: "(I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but if they have and I missed it, I apologize)
Another angle on this issue is the respective sizes of the theatres. At over 1,600 seats, the Curran is larger than your average Broadway house, but it is also significantly smaller than The Orpheumand the Golden Gate, both of which have over 2,200 seats (significantly larger than any Broadway house). Not tomention that massive performing arts center in San Jose, which is almost 2,700 seats. The Curran provided the only opportunity for Bay Area audiences to see smaller Broadway productions in a theatre that is even remotely size-appropriate."
You forgot about American Conservatory Theatre's Geary, adjacent to the Curran. Broadway=sized house, but rarely if ever brings in tours because of ACT's own season. They usually do their own take on some recent Broadway plays.
Berkeley Repertory Theatre's Roda theatre is also an excellent house and they have recently produced pre-Broadway engagements of American Idiot, Amelie and Ain't Too Proud. Kiss My Aztec - their current production - is most likely aiming for Broadway or off=Broadway. Their counterpart in Southern California is the Globe and they may even have an alliance of sorts.
