Thumbelina and Swan Princess on Broadway

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 11:17am

Now that we know that non-Disney/Dreamworks animated shows can do average on Broadway, do you think that The Swan Princess or Don Bluth's other princess movie Thumbelina can do well on Broadway? Will the Anastasia fanbase be strong enough for the other two properties?

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 11:50am

I would love to see both performed on Broadway. They were almost big parts of my early childhood.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 11:55am

I do not think that either of these have the same name recognition as Anastasia, so I have hard time imagining either being successful as a Broadway musical. 

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 12:08pm

Other Non Disney movies that can work are Pebble and the Penguin, Cats Don't Dance, Ferngully, Quest for Camelot and Pagemaster.

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 1:34pm

bwayphreak234 said: "I do not think that either of these have the same name recognition as Anastasia, so I have hard time imagining either being successful as a Broadway musical."

Well The Swan Princess doesn’t really need the ‘name recognition’ considering it could easily be billed as SWAN LAKE; THE MUSICAL which would instantly making it far more interesting. I’m surprised Swan Lake hasn’t been adapted as a musical already .

 

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 4:19pm

^ Dont know if that will work to lure audiences

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 7:50pm

I'm going to put aside the name recognition/fan base question and try to tackle if they could draw in audiences by being successful as artistic projects.

I think The Swan Princess would need a LOT more songs. It does have the advantage of playing to both a younger and older audience with the time jump. It's a fairytale but it's also a romance, more so than some other properties that play primarily to younger audiences. I think it would struggle with tone because unlike something like Shrek, they wouldn't have the luxury of not taking themselves completely seriously but you've got talking animals running around and you've got to sell the high stakes melodrama of Swan Lake for adults. It's really a place where you underestimate the advantages of animation. You know, after trying to reason it out, I think it would be a real struggle to sell it to an adult audience if you didn't cut the goofiness of the talking animals and sell it in some other way (e.g. puppets, ballet-inspired costumes vs. actual animal costumes or something like Spongebob). Also, aside from Odette's initial rejection and building up Derek realizing "what else is there" I'm not sure if this has anything relevant to say to a modern audience. 

Thumbelina is interesting because on the one hand, it has horrifying gender politics. But on the other hand, that gives you a lot of room for an actual critique. I think the Barry Manilow songs are mostly solid (unpopular opinion?) and the score needs less bulking up though it could use a bit of it. You've still got a talking animal problem but it's a goofier story that's better for a young audience so I could see outright animal costumes or just a gesture at them both working fine. I'm not sure what you'd get by adapting it to the stage if you weren't critical of the original story as I'm not sure there are enough stage tricks to bring the drama that is so much easier to convey in animation (flying, etc.). 

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 9:00pm

BOTH of these movies, while big parts of mt childhood don't get me wrong, are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker in story, structure, and song then Anastasia was. Also, they are both far LESS mature pieces. 

Anastasia was a children's movie BUT they were able to turn into a realistic and mature musical that can appeal to both children and adults. It maintained some of it's original movie, but got rid of the magic to make it a more adult piece. So you have the nostalgic audience and.... that's kinda it. 

Swan Princess and Thumbelina, you can't do that. You can't remove the pieces of them that make them read to much Children's theatre and replace them with more mature or realistic elements to pull in more then just theatre fans with kids and school groups because they are to interwoven into the plot to be removed. And they are not popular enough properties on their own to get away with basically being overpriced children's theatre like some musicals *COUGHSHREKCOUGH.*

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/20/19 at 10:44pm

Scarlet Leigh said: "BOTH of these movies, while big parts of mt childhood don't get me wrong, are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker in story, structure, and song then Anastasia was. Also, they are both far LESS mature pieces.

Anastasia was a children's movie BUT they were able to turn into a realistic and mature musical that can appeal to both children and adults. It maintained some of it's original movie, but got rid of the magic to make it a more adult piece.So you have the nostalgic audience and.... that's kinda it.

Swan Princess and Thumbelina, you can't do that. You can't remove the pieces of them that make them read to much Children's theatre and replace them with more mature or realistic elements to pull in more then just theatre fans with kids and school groups because they are to interwoven into the plot to be removed. And they are not popular enough properties on their own to get away with basically being overpriced children's theatre like some musicals *COUGHSHREKCOUGH.*"

Well the supernatural elements of Anastasia did scare me as a kid. But i do want to see the new Anastasia for the more mature approach.

[RWPrincess]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 12:38am

I think the reason that Anastasia and even Aladdin or The Lion King have worked so well is because they took something that may have been initially targeted to kids and found a way to make it appeal to both kids and adults on Broadway. All of these shows have the romance, the villain, the emotions, likeable characters, etc.

I was in my early 20s when the Anastasia movie came out and to me it was just another copycat Disney movie. But now the Broadway show is one of my favorites. When the show first came out, I remember cast members saying it was also based on the 1956 live action movie so not just the 1997 cartoon. I have not seen the 1956 movie so cant speak to which parts may have ended up in the Broadway show.

I havent seen Thumbelina or Swan Princess but Ive always thought they were more targeted to little kids so it may be a bit harder to translate those into a Broadway musical that can appeal to everyone.

As an aside, Ive always thought Tangled was a better movie than Frozen but it tends to get lost in conversation with all the Frozen stuff. I know Disney has a Tangled musical on one of the cruise ships but I think that could potentially work in theater as well. Its got a lot of similar elements as Anastasia and others mentioned.

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 12:48am

RWPrincess said: "I havent seen Thumbelina or Swan Princess but Ive always thought they were more targeted to little kids so it may be a bit harder to translate those into a Broadway musical that can appeal to everyone."

Exactly. They definitely are aimed for a younger target audience. Like Anastasia was a FAMILY movie. Swan Princess and Thumbelina are very much KIDS movies. That thing you threw in the VHS player to entertain your little ones for 90 minutes so you could get a little peace and quiet for 90 damn minutes. And Swan Princess is also a bit tainted by it's status as a terrible kids movie FRANCHISE. Yes, franchise. Think of all the worst of the Disney direct to DVD sequels. That are like watching Titanic compared to the Swan Princess sequels.

[RWPrincess]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 12:53am

Thanks for the distinction between Family versus Kids movies. I think you stated that perfectly. I was trying to think of a way to state that and just ended up with Kids and Little Kids lol.

With converting to a Broadway production, the distinction is important and its even more important to make sure the show appeals to males and females of all ages. I think weve all seen examples of shows where that isnt the case and unfortunately they seem to close sooner.

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 1:54am

RWPrincess said: "I think the reason that Anastasia and even Aladdin or The Lion King have worked so well is because they took something that may have been initially targeted to kids and found a way to make it appeal to both kids and adults on Broadway. All of these shows have the romance, the villain, the emotions, likeable characters, etc.

I was in my early 20s when the Anastasia movie came out and to me it was just another copycat Disney movie. But now the Broadway show is one of my favorites. When the show first came out, I remember cast members saying it was also based on the 1956 live action movie so not just the 1997 cartoon. I have not seen the 1956 movie so cant speak to which parts may have ended up in the Broadway show.

I havent seen Thumbelina or Swan Princess but Ive always thought they were more targeted to little kids so it may be a bit harder to translate those into a Broadway musical that can appeal to everyone.

As an aside, Ive always thought Tangled was a better movie than Frozen but it tends to get lost in conversation with all the Frozen stuff. I know Disney has a Tangled musical on one of the cruise ships but I think that could potentially work in theater as well. Its got a lot of similar elements as Anastasia and others mentioned. "

First of all, you should at least try both movies just for some simple fantasy entertainment. Second of all, i think Tangled and Frozen are equally beautiful.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 2:17am

theyre both awful movies so i hope they dont go to broadway

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 10:35pm

Sorry it took so long. I never got back to my Band's Visit forum back in June either.

BwayLB said: "Other Non Disney movies that can work are Pebble and the Penguin, Cats Don't Dance, Ferngully, Quest for Camelot and Pagemaster."

I would love love Cats Don't Dance to happen, but they need serious good direction for it. Could they remove the animals out of it and make it to a story about race?

I love your post VintageSnarker! So insightful! I think they can use some songs of the two original sequels.  Because I Love Her would be a beautiful Act 1 finale. Scarlet, don't remind me of the CGI sequels. I haven't watch the original sequels for a long time, but I mainly remember their songs 

I agree with the posts about Thumbelina and SP being children's theater. Swan Princess could be slightly adult if they put some elements from the original ballet, but the animal sidekicks (as puppets) could be great for kids too. Thumbelina would need an extended story in general, including development between Cornelious and 'Lina because "I literally met you once" won't work for today's audiences. 

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 1/21/19 at 10:39pm

I mean, no offense, but how is someone in the audience of say, the Broadhurst, supposed to see a character the literal size of a thumb, or heck, a Barbie doll?

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 12:33am

disneybroadwayfan22 said: "Sorry it took so long. I never got back to my Band's Visit forum back in June either.

BwayLB said: "Other Non Disney movies that can work are Pebble and the Penguin, Cats Don't Dance, Ferngully, Quest for Camelot and Pagemaster."

I would love love Cats Don't Dance to happen, but they need serious good direction for it. Could they remove the animals out of it and make it to a story about race?

I love your postVintageSnarker! So insightful! I think they can use some songs of the two original sequels. Because I Love Her would be a beautiful Act 1 finale. Scarlet, don't remind me of the CGI sequels. I haven't watch the original sequels for a long time, but Imainly remember their songs

I agree with the posts about Thumbelina and SP being children's theater. Swan Princess could be slightly adult if they put some elements from the original ballet, but the animal sidekicks (as puppets) could be great for kids too. Thumbelina would needan extended story in general, including development between Cornelious and 'Lina because "I literally met you once" won't work for today's audiences."

Actually first of all, the actors don’t have to be puppets for Cats Don’t Dance But they can still be animals but in costumes that show their human like characteristics with tails attached to their backs. No over the top makeup necessary. Secondly I don’t know about using sequel songs for Swan Princess but I thought it would be better if No More Mr Nice Guy can be Act One finale and I agree about the animals being used as puppets. And third I am thinking for Thumbelina, she is already kidnaped by the Toad Family when he meets Cornelius. But she is given the wrong impression by their first meeting. And they slowly fall in love over the course of the story. The Good Witch Who gives Thumbelinas mother the seed that gave her life also guides the two lovers. And Let Me Be Your Wings can be in Act Two as they fly and dance in the snow.

 

PS for the director of Cats Don’t Dance I think it should be either Casey Nicolaw or Christopher Wheeldon who did An American in Paris.

Updated On: 1/22/19 at 12:33 AM

[Fan123]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 2:50am

I think 'The Swan Princess' is more salvageable than 'Thumbelina'. Some of the SP songs are still enjoyable for adults IMO; 'This Is My Idea' in particular is a fun twist on the usual prince-and-princess-in-love scenario, while still managing to be a bit sincerely romantic at the end. In particular, I can imagine the below section playing well on stage, with our newly-revealed 'hot', adult Odette and Derek starting the section on opposite sides of the stage and reluctantly being nudged closer and closer together. (This is a fandub in Arabic, but you get the idea.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGwW0tBFgr8

Odette/Odile could become a fun dual role too, if they gave Odile a bit more to do. Perhaps the "What else is there [apart from beauty]?" question could be developed further though Odile and Derek's interaction, given that the only thing Odette and Odile share are pretty looks.

But... I think this would need a new creative team given a very free hand to bring it up to Broadway quality. I'd at least be interested to see somebody try.

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 9:32am

You know instead of the Old Hag, having Odile instead played by the same actress as Odette does not sound like a bad idea.

And I always found it a little weird how Odette and Derek started out as rivals but soon madly in love.

[JennH]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 11:35am

I won't say I'd complain if they did, but for many of the reasons already said by everyone here, they wouldn't fly very well. It's true, they don't have NEAR the name recognition that Anastasia does, and I do like the distinction that they were very much marketed towards young children. Anastasia works for many markets, same with Prince of Egypt, my other favorite animated non Disney musical. 

I love both of them regardless of the target age however. If they were to be made into stage musicals, I think Fan123 is right, SP is the more salvageable of the two. Odette may have the usual princess qualities of soft voiced, sweet natured, etc. but I always appreciated that along with that, she had a mind of her own and wasn't afraid to use it when necessary. She attempts to take charge of herself, but was kinda hindered by that usual fairy tale spell. Thumbelina would be harder in terms of stage design (obviously) and I think the story itself flows better, but it SP has the more salvageable story to make work on stage possibly. And believe it or not, I don't think Odette/Odile would be a dual role unless they were to cut Odette trying to get Derek's attention at the ball that's it's not her down there (Yes, I''m a nerd who knows this movie well ;P). We see both of them, and we should if we're to keep the gender politics of 2019 in it because that is one of those moments where she's trying to take charge of her own fate and fight against what's happened to her. Without that, it would the ballet, where she's absent from that, and seemingly just lets it all happen. 

[Fan123]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 3:13pm

Hmm, that could present a challenge... I suppose if VintageSnarker's puppetry idea was used, Swan-Odette could appear in the same scene. If the show had established beforehand that Swan-Odette could only make swan sounds (honks?) when attempting to speak to humans, then there wouldn't be the difficulty of a puppeter having to lip-sync to recorded dialogue. As I recall from a Swan Lake ballet DVD from forever ago, in at least some productions of the ballet, 'Odette' very briefly appears in the distance at the end of the Black Swan scene, a double used to show that Odette had been trying to get in at the window or whatever. Some similar or expanded version of that, via puppetry or possibly even video, might work.

[BwayLB]

Posted: 1/22/19 at 4:42pm

^ Either should work

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 1/24/19 at 6:37pm

I feel like the only way Thumbelina works is if you give someone the rights (cheaply) to do children's theater. The cost of all the animals and set pieces and cast members would be crazy but if you let the show be done cheaply (actors obviously playing multiple characters, basic sets, just dancing instead of tricks to convey flying, etc.) you can excuse a lot of things. I do think that there are some moments that would read very well on stage. The big one is Cornelius' reappearance. That still gets me.

Stripped down to fairytale theater for children, it's children's theater with particularly good songs. Aside from the problem of mostly having male characters, if you could work up a decent stage version it would be a good thing to do at schools where you could easily have a bigger ensemble. My middle school (no, I wasn't in it) did a godawful production of Honk! I'm thinking of something along the lines of that.