Tommy Tune takes over "Dolittle" — Page 3

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#51

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 3:01pm

Gotham-I've read this entire thread and have hoped that I could be patient with you. But you have pushed me to the limit. "And we all know that the Tony Awards go to the most talented person". Oh, I'm sorry. I guess only untalented people like Hal Prince(somewhere around 20) or Stephen Sondheim(7) win many Tony Awards. I guess the Tony Awards are SO bad with their choices that they manage to make a mistake 9 times.

The truth is, Tommy Tune DID doctor "At the Grand" and turned it into one of the best shows of the 80's. He took an entirely new approach to the movie 8 1/2 and managed to make it, also, one of the best musicals of the 80's. The man is a genius. And I guess the last time that he directed, choreographed, co-wrote, and starred in a musical (My One and Only) it was such a piece of crap that they just HAD to give him the Tony Award and it just HAD to be a hit. God! What a no-talent hack Tommy Tune is!

I have to agree with best12, lildogs, and justme. They are 100% right. Most of you, I want to know what you're on and if I can get some of it. To call yourselves "harcore musical theatre lovers" and completeley disregard one of American Musical Theatre's best directors (Yes, I put him up there with Hal Prince and George Abbott) and best choreographers (Yes, I put him up there with Michael Bennett, Bob Fosse and Gower Champion) is just ludicrous. That's it, nothing more to say. Elvis has left the building.

"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.

Updated On: 10/12/05 at 03:01 PM

#52

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 3:17pm

"Oh, I'm sorry. I guess only untalented people like Hal Prince(somewhere around 20) or Stephen Sondheim(7) win many Tony Awards. I guess the Tony Awards are SO bad with their choices that they manage to make a mistake 9 times."

I never said it only goes to untalented people. But the Tonys make huge mistakes.

For example, in 1982 when they handed Best Director to Tune for "Nine" when it should have gone to Bennett for "Dreamgirls". I'm not saying Tune didn't give a good show, but I am saying Bennett gave a better one. That's the type of mistakes the Tony Awards make.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

Updated On: 10/12/05 at 03:17 PM

#53

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 3:26pm

You never saw his "Nine," then. It was one of the most brilliantly directed shows I've ever seen... and that includes Bennett's "Dreamgirls."

I wish they could have tied... but I don't argue with their choice... in fact, I agree with it.

...And what about Tune's other 8 Tonys? Do you think lightning struck in his favor "accidentally" that many times?

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 10/12/05 at 03:26 PM

#54

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 3:52pm

Tommy Tune's talent is not the issue here, and I don't think it ever was meant to be the issue.

The producers of Doctor Dolittle have a show that didn't work based on material that wasn't any good to begin with and now they want to throw more money at the piece.

Why not go back to the source material, the Dr. Dolittle books by Hugh Lofting, and write a new show that might work? Hire a book writer that has a clue and a new songwriting team that can write more than run-of-the-mill tunes. [When Talk To The Animals won Best Song, there were major groans in the audience because everybody knew that The Look of Love was a far far better song--and it is. I believe that staory is from the book The Studio by John Gregory Dunne.]

Yes, some of the songs work like When I Look In Your Eyes which is a love song to a SEAL, does work but not in context.

The movie was a major critical and financial failure that pushed 20th Century Fox close to the edge of insolvency (Star and Hello, Dolly and a few others didn't help to stem the red ink.)

What ought to people have learned from this fiasco--that mediocre movie musicals make bad stage musicals? Instead more money is going to be thrown at another blah show no matter how wonderful Tommy's staging might turn out to be.

Practical matters and I know this sounds bitchy, but I don't care how good a shape Tommy is in, he is 65 if he is a day, and he expects to carry a huge musical where the audience is going to expect him to dance?

Bottom line: it isn't Tommy Tune. The play's the thing.

"If my life weren't funny, it would just be true. And that would be unacceptable." --Carrie Fisher

#55

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 3:55pm

I never said he wasn't talented. But I don't put him in the "genius" category with people like Michael Bennett.

Remember back to 1990 when Grand Hotel was dubbed "the musical about the chairs"?

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

#56

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:07pm

stop knocking the material. there's nothing wrong with the songs. it's just apparently the book that needs work... Tune can help with that, I suppose, but stop blaming the material. unless the academy got it wrong that time too when it won the academy award...

#57

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:07pm

Maybe he can turn it around. It'll be interesting to see. I do think it'll take a lot more work than some new choreography and new staging, though. The book is a mess. Plus I'll be sad to see Tom Hewitt go. I don't think there's any need to replace anyone in the cast, I thought they were all superb with what little was given them - Tom especially. I think having Tune on the creative team is a great idea but I'm not so eager to have him star in it. Maybe I just don't want to let go of Tom Hewitt.

#58

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:08pm

WOSQ -- I agree with you that they should go back to the original source material and start building from the ground up.

But there are a few things you missed (in my opinion)... the score to Dr. Dolittle (the movie) was and is a superior score. The Academy chose "Talk To the Animals," and despite the audience groans (if there were any), I'm glad they honored it at least in that category, even if it wasn't the popular choice. The movie was also nominated for Best Picture that year, so somebody liked it. It flopped at the box office, because it was an enormously expensive movie to produce. They went WAY over budget at the time, and unless it turned out to be "Star Wars," they were going to take a loss. More due to poor production management than poor attendance. They were only disappointed in the returns because every man, woman and child in the U.S. didn't see it 4 times. Not very likely, but that's what they were facing in order to make money. A bad gamble, regardless of the quality of the film.

The "love song to a seal" is completely appropriate if you consider who's singing it and why he feels that way. The song could easily work out of context as well and transcends the moment in the film. It's a hauntingly beautiful song (better than "Animals," if I were going to pick one to vote for). Other songs ("My Friend the Doctor," "I've Never Seen Anything Like It," etc.) are also terrific.

I'm hoping that Tune will take the best from the material that's been established: the books and the movie musical, and add to it for a "new" theatrical work. I'm betting he'll do just that.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 10/12/05 at 04:08 PM

#59

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:12pm

Maybe he should go back to the Eddie Murphy version.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

#60

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:15pm

Gothampc---The chairs were an amazing staging device in "Grand Hotel."

The fact that it was reduced to "that musical about chairs" can be said for any show you've ever seen running on Broadway. All it takes is enough bile and animosity, and Piazza could be "that show about a retarded girl, clubbed by a horse, who wants to find love." Or let's go see "that AIDS musical where everyone whines about paying their landlords." Or how about "that Mowtown show about the fat girl that gets kicked out of the group before they hit the big time."

See my point?

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#61

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:17pm

"See my point?"

No, because Grand Hotel's choreography was built around the chairs. I don't see that as an amazing staging device.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

#62

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:25pm

Okay, you win, Gothampc. He sucks. Let's take away all his Tonys and ban him from the boards for life.

While we're at it, let's just spit on him the next time we see him in public.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#63

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:32pm

I don't think we need to take away all his Tonys. Just the ones he doesn't deserve.

I don't think we should spit on him, although Scott Ellis might enjoy having a break.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

#64

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:50pm

Gotham, GRAND HOTEL was simply stunning as a visual piece.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

#65

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 4:57pm

Good Lord...should we start in on Stroman now? Her choreography in Producers, perhaps? You could say "the chorepgraphy was based around walkers" and then dismiss her entire career as well.

It's obvious you have some sort of dislike for Tune. That's too bad, as his shows have nearly always hit their mark. That's a pretty good ratio for anyone on Broadway.

"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."

#66

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 5:26pm

I think I will see this now, just to see Tommy Tune on stage live.

"Chicago is it's own incredible theater town right there smack down in the middle of the heartland. What a great city! I can see why Oprah likes to live there!" - Dee Hoty :-D

#67

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 5:34pm

He's a truly remarkable person - read his book if you want a sweet little reflection on a life in the theatre. I heard him read from it at Barnes and Noble the year it came out, went right home and wrote him a fan letter to which he responded with a nice long note. He's a true gentleman and incredibly talented.

"I don't really get the ending,all i can go with is when after several months,Judith saw Pat sang,and later she kissed him on the toilet,after that the story back to where Pat went down from the stage after he'd sung,and he went to the italian lady.I just don't get it,what Judith exatcly meant when he kissed Pat that she had seen,and did Pat end up together with The Italian Lady?Please help me,thank u very much!" Quote from someone on IMDB in reference to a movie he/she didn't understand. Such grammar!

#68

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 5:39pm

I read that book, redhot...and would have liked him to have spent more time talking about HOW he came up with ideas for the work he's done. It was a VERY personal book, and while an enjoyable read...I wanted more theater insight than he was willing to give.

I still have Footnotes, though.

"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."

#69

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 5:41pm

I lent my copy to someone years ago and never got it back...but I still remember it being a pleasant diversion.

#70

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 5:49pm

I remember the stories he told of his grandparents, and how many cases of suicide were in his family. And an awfully long description of Twiggy's breasts. Also an extremeley descriptive paragraph or two about a horrible massage in Japan.

Though entertaining, I wish I had gotten more insight to his working methods.

"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."

#71

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 9:23pm

Best12Bars: You're not really disagreeing with me... just telling a different aspect of the same story... yes Tommy Tune used pre-exsisting material... but that was not the origianl intention... Late one night he watched Grand Hotel on TV and said "that would make a wonderful musical" It was not until later that he discovered someone already made one... So it was not really so much a case of someone re-working a show as it was talking an old show and forcing into his concept... His goal was to stage a musical version of Grand Hotel, not rework a flop show. The creation of Grand Hotel is extensively documented in Martin Gottfried MORE BROADWAY MUSICALS.

Um and second point directed once again at Best12Bars... the chair thingie was a remarkable triumph of concept and style... one that hasn't really been matched in a musical production... at least not one that comes to mind... the original Broadway run of Grand Hotel was HEART stopping... and it's completely owed to Tommy Tune's immagination... for proof... see ANY other production of Grand Hotel... Grand Hotel is lame... which is why it almost always fails in regional production... the recent Chicago production is being offered as Exhibit A... beautiful cast... wonderfully designed... completely airless and VERY boring...here again Best12Bars... we agree...

Finally... the movie of Docotor Doolittle is lame and unsophisticated... it's possible to enjoy in a corny and nostalgic sort of way... but it's generally regaurded as one of the worst best picture nominations in Oscar history... it flopped because it was a dinosaur at a time when movies were changing... look at the other films it was nominated with... Bonnie and Clyde, The Graduate, Looking Who's Coming to Dinner,Cool Hand Luke, and the Dirty Dozen... Dr. Doolittle flopped because no one wanted to see it... which I fear will be the problem with Dr. Doolittle the musical... as the man said there is no limit to the amount of people who won't go see a musical they don't want to see....

anyway... long winded....

kc

Jesus saves. I spend.

#72

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 10:25pm

I think Grand Hotel is very underrated. It has a great score (many of the original songs are great as well as the new ones by Yeston). The problem with the show is that it is meant to have a certain style and the pace of it is supposed to be very cinematic. A prime example is Phantom of the Opera. Have you noticed when you see the show there is very little room in the show to applaud? The reason why is because it just keeps on going. The sets change and the actors keep on acting. As if there was no audience there and they are meant to continue the show at that constant speed. Grand Hotel is very much the same. Scenes end at the exact moment that another one starts, same with the songs.

True, this was Tommy Tune's prime vision which is why it worked best with him. But that does NOT mean that there can't be a good production of Grand Hotel. If I'm correct, wasn't the latest revival in London rather good? Grand Hotel is a show that needs to be done with guidelines. Because if it isn't than, well it would either become boring or slow moving.

"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.

#73

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 11:08pm

Ok, about Grand Hotel...I can't let this pass...Tune said he saw the movie late one night and that he wasn't too much of a fan; the only portion that made an impression was the revolving doors as people entered and exited the hotel. He went back to read the novel and thought it was a good story...but the chairs and the revolving door were what inspired his choreography.

I read Gottfried's book as well, and the show is very well documented. I was always a little peeved that Tune didn't like the 1932 movie, as it's a favorite of mine. He did do a great job with the Broadway show, though.

"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."

#74

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 11:13pm

justme2, I did not like the movie version either. I found it well acted and a very lush production design, but not much else. Since it was made in the 30's they couldn't include certain parts of the story (Flaemchenn (sp?) selling herself to Preysing, than changing her mind) that were used in the show. I felt those moments made the show darker and more intense.

"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.

Updated On: 10/12/05 at 11:13 PM

#75

re: Tommy Tune takes over 'Dolittle'

Posted: 10/12/05 at 11:22pm

*sob*

I understand what you are saying, though.

I liked the movie for the performances and was always surprised that Flaemmchen couldn't just be "the whore" as the novel intended. Why was I surprised? Because this movie was made before the code in 1934 and there were a slew of movies being made at other studios with whores as the main characters!

However, this movie was considered a "high class" MGM production, so of course...she was a "stenographer" who wanted to "travel" with Prising.

"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."

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