Tony award for choreography 2007- Page 2

[Kad]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 11:16am

It is in no way a "little engine". It has millions and millions of dollars behind it and was designed to make money. Disney had intended it to be licensed and rake in the dough for them. The only reason it exists was because there was demand for it.

This isn't some labor of love by up and coming writers who have suddenly found themselves awash in critical and audience love after playing an off-Broadway venue, suddenly thrust against some big mega-musicals. That would be a "little engine that could".

This is a large musical based on a popular movie, backed by Disney and written by two very prolific people.

Newsies has all the advantages over Once, in terms of business. And it always has.

[defygravity24]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 2:04pm

I find it hard to believe that people don't think Spring Awakening deserved that award. Legally Blonde and Mary Poppins both had great choreography, but Spring Awakening was so different, but natural and amazing in so many ways. I believed that the characters would be jumping around or dancing in their chairs. Out of that show's context, it wouldn't work, but in context, its brilliant.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 2:49pm

Questions of quality aside, it also was (I believe) the first Broadway show choreographed by Bill T Jones who is a (deservedly) beloved name among critics.

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 2:56pm

Agreed Bill T Jones was a legend before he did Spring Awakening, and it was his first foray into the Broadway stage, and he was successful. One has to realize it would be like if Stephen Spielberg directed a play...he would most certainly win the Tony.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 8:17pm

It's absurd to think that Newsies isn't the underdog here. It's equally absurd to claim that it is the little engine that could, for the simple reason that it couldn't, can't and never could.

Its competition is a well-oiled monster diesel whose every move was calculated to get just what it wanted, aided and abetted by a fawning media who pushed it and pushed for it at every turn. Nothing could ever have stopped this juggernaut. I don't see how anyone could have thought otherwise.

And you can't really blame Disney here. They could have spent a thousand times as much as they did to promote the show, and the result would been no different.




Updated On: 5/30/12 at 08:17 PM

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 8:25pm

After Eight are you talking about Once Newsies or Spring Awakening?

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 8:27pm

Once.



Updated On: 5/30/12 at 08:27 PM

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 8:43pm

After Eight, I completely agree and hate how people are thinking of Once as the artsy come from behind show, when in reality its producers have been playing the media since day one...Disney could even take a few notes from them.
The first quote you have though is in regards to my post about how Newsies is the true "little engine that could" show of the season, with the exception of Lysistrata Jones. How the show was never meant for Broadway and it was only by the grace of God it ever made it to broadway.

"Ok maybe not horribly i will concede. By horribly I meant Disney did not have faith in NEWSIES. Newseis is the underdog though. Being an underdog does not have to do with its producers, but the shows journey to the great white way. Technically this seasons underdog would by LJ, but come awards season its Newsies. Its ironic that the plot if Newsies is a underdog story, but if you disagree that Newsies is the underdog, you have to at least consede it is the little engine that could."

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:02pm

Bdn,

Obviously, we are on the same page here. Of course Newsies is the underdog, and it has been from the beginning. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Too bad it really never had a chance against the juggernaut.

Just like nothing else had a chance against Spring Awakening, the critics' darling of that day.

That engine business, however, has outlived its usefulness.

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:16pm

Thanx I do disagree about Spring Awakening though that was most certainly not a show planned for Broadway...it was a critical darling, which lead to a sweep come Tony season, but it was the beginning of the era where every semi well reviewed off broadway musical thinking it could make it on Broadway...most of which should not and are too experimental (Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson/Scottsboro Boys/Fella) or silly (Lysistrata Jones/Title of Show). Which is what Once's producers are trying to make it come off as, which if they waited a season like most of those musicals do..it could play that card, but it was rushed. You could also argue that Avenue Q was that musical, but Spring Awakening somewhat solidified that ideology.

Updated On: 5/29/12 at 09:16 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:32pm

I'm sorry, how exactly can a show produced by Disney, one of the largest corporations in the world, be considered an underdog? Newsies has huge money behind it, and After Eight, if you're going to say that Once has the "NY media" behind it, bear in mind that Disney owns ABC News, which has featured Newsies on several on its programs, including Good Morning America, Nightline, and The View, which featured the show before it even was announced for Broadway. Maybe Once is the critics darling (we get it- you hate the damn show), but it is absolutely ridiculous to assert that Newsies is some sort of underdog because critics didn't fall all over it.

[Bwaydide92]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:38pm

I think Newsies also performed at The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade before the transfer was announced. I could be wrong. But Newsies is not an underdog. That's like saying The Book of Mormon was an underdog. Disney was just cautious with Newsies because the movie was a gigantic flop and their last two ventures into theatre were huge flops as well. They realised that they couldn't just depend on their name on Broadway and that they needed to actually do some work on this one.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:41pm

Wizard,

How, say you?

Simple. Broadway hates Disney. (It likes Disney's money though) That plain enough for you?

How did a dog like Passion win over Beauty and the Beast?

ABC means nothing to the people who count: award voters.

Have you been following the theatre for any length of time?

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:49pm

Well, personally, I don't like Passion much either, so I can't explain that win. However, The Lion King won several awards over the critically lauded Ragtime, so clearly Broadway doesn't hate Disney all that much.

Sorry, I don't think the "Broadway hates Disney" thing really holds water. I think the issue is that Disney often produces shows that simply aren't very good in terms of quality- I mean, there are very few that would call Tarzan or The Little Mermaid quality examples of musical theatre. If Disney produced more things of quality, than I imagine they would get more attention from the Tony Awards. But the fact of the matter is that, more often than not, Disney strikes out when producing shows on Broadway.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 9:53pm

So you see, Wizard, we agree.

Disney's might and money mean nothing when it comes to winning awards.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:01pm

Well, no, as the case should be. I didn't disagree that Disney, despite its monetary power, doesn't always win awards. My disagreement came from the characterization of Newsies as a little engine that could, underdog tiny show that came out of nowhere. With the backing of Disney behind it, there was no way that this show wasn't going to be a big fat hit. And fortunately for them, the show has gotten just enough praise that its merits, combined with the success of the show, put it in serious contention for the win. And were it to win, it would not be the first time the big flashy show won over a smaller, quieter show that has the better reviews.

[Shunterk]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:03pm

Okay, wait a minute.

I rarely post, but this argument has gotten out of control and honestly, it doesn't make sense.

Of course money and might mean nothing when it comes to garnering awards. It never has, in any art form. And while we both know that Broadway is both a business and an art, the Tony Awards (In an ideal world) reward the artistic merit of the piece. Best Choreography and Best Musical. Not 'Musical with the most Financial Security'. So in terms of artistic merit, Once and Newsies originated at zero. Yes, Once has gotten the positive opinions of critiques, but Newsies has gotten the positive opinions of ticket buyers. Both have. Critics are just people paid to offer their opinions. Just like us, but paid.

On the business side. Of course Once was the underdog. Where would the funding come from? The Producers clearly worked hard to pay for everything and organize it and such, and it comes off as a 'well oiled-machine', looking anything else is poor publicity. Ex. Spiderman. The producers of Newsies knew that if the show was popular enough, Disney would continue to support it. Plain and simple. It's just as mechanic as Once.

There. Now stop getting petty.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:08pm

"With the backing of Disney behind it, there was no way that this show wasn't going to be a big fat hit."

Then according to this way of thinking, there was no way that Tarzan and Little Mermaid weren't going to be big fat hits. They had the same Disney money behind them, and far more publicity.

Your logic is faulty.

But go ahead and believe whatever you want. Even if it's contradicted by the facts.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:13pm

Those two shows may not have been big fat hits, but they still managed to make a respectable run- shows with much better reviews and word of mouth have closed much faster than either Tarzan or The Little Mermaid. And as I said, Newsies is helped not only by Disney's money but also by the fact that it wasn't completely savaged by critics and actually has a lot of positive qualities. I'm not trying to say that Disney is infallible, but I just don't see how anyone could argue that their productions don't open with a significant advantage.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:29pm

We're talking about award voters here.

Sorry I can't explain it to you any further.

Anyhow, good night, and enjoy Tony night.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:40pm

After Eight, where the hell did I ever describe Once as a "little engine that could"?

And when did I suggest that my hypothetical "underdog" musical was, in fact, Once?

Answer to both: Never.

I'm aware Once, with its Oscar-winning composer and big producers behind it, is no "little engine". I was debunking the absurd notion that Newsies is somehow an underdog show, miraculously come to Broadway against all odds.

Stop projecting your ceaseless hatred for Once. It's infused so many of your already condescending and miserable posts. One has to wonder if the only reason you wake up in the morning is so you can hate the rest of the day.

[bdn223]

Posted: 5/29/12 at 10:47pm

I just want to make it know i did not hate Once, I actually liked it, I just LOVED Newsies and am kind of sick of people being like "Once is more artistic..its such an "underdog"...Its producers are playing theater politics just like Disney, only Disney doesn't irritate me for some reason, probably because i loved Newsies. My only issue with Once was that I have never truly been in love, which hinders me from completely falling for the characters. I am a young person who loves a good cause which somewhat explains why I liked Newsies more...

[Bwaydide92]

Posted: 5/30/12 at 12:04am

It's going to come down to how they think the two will do on tour. Which awards would be the most advantageous for both? Just like in the past. Like, when Wicked was doing wonders at the Box Office, so they knew they had to give it some awards, but Avenue Q would need more help to sell with all the mature content, so it needed Best Musical. I think Once will win Best Musical, but Newsies will probably win Choreography, so that Once gets publicity outside of theatre-goers, and Newsies can still claim to be 'Tony Award Winning".

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 5/30/12 at 12:36am

I think Disney has always had faith in Newsies would they be producing it if they didn't? and please they had Menken and firestien on board if they didn't have faith then that's beyond me. Schumacher has just been playing it safe, and with that it's helped them win big time. I would love for Newsies to win best musical but it would make sense for them to win Chorography, Score and possibly Book.on an ending note while mermaid and Tarzan were flops. Poppins, Beauty and King were wonderfully produced works.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 5/30/12 at 1:30am

I don't think Once would have made it to Broadway without aggressive producers. It's a tough sell. You know what's not as tough a sell? Cute young chorus boys dancing and singing up a storm with an attractive leading man at the head. Beloved music by a beloved composer. A cult following and school groups coming to the theatre. Disney may have been cautious about Newsies, but once it got to Broadway, it kind of sold itself. So really, I can't blame the producers of Once for working the media, the circuits, etc. Otherwise, no one would know what the show is (for people who know the song "Falling Slowly" sometimes forget it's from a movie), and then posters on this board would have been saying, "Wow, that was a great show, but the marketing sucked and no one knew about it."