WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST FILM "DOLLY"?- Page 2

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 7:25pm

Originally filming on location in Garrison, NY was scheduled for about 4-5 weeks.  Once production started on the film, producers realized that June is a rainy month in that part of The Hudson Valley.  Director Gene Kelly was able to change the filming schedule to just under 2 weeks. 

Filming commenced April 15, 1968 and was concluded 90 days later, one day over schedule. Although 65 percent of the movie was shot outdoors, only one full day was lost to the weather—and that in Garrison, New York, when it rained.

They only lost 1 full day to rain – not an entire week.  Gene was able to film everything on location in 11 days.  Again, he gets so many facts in the book wrong.  Not sure why he would rather believe lies than the truth.  Even back then, people believed "fake news." 

The main reason why HD cost so much money was due to the show's Broadway producer, David Merrick.  There was a stipulation in his contract with 20th Century Fox that the film couldn't be released for several years, and after ticket sales had naturally gone down.  That never happened with HD as David cast big stars after Carol left, and the box office was going strong.  Filming ended in Sept 1968, and the film sat on a shelf and wasn't released until Dec 1969.  20th Century Fox had to pay even many more millions to David to get the film released. 

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 07:25 PM

[RicardoMagon]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 8:28pm

No one could sing the **** out of Dolly like Streisand did. Streisand was a perfect Dolly.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 11:39pm

I agree- Hepburn was great in Lion In Winter- and Barbra was great in FG- perhaps the tie was perfect justice. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 10:43am

Actually, 1968 was one of the best years for actresses ever IMO.  Joanne Woodward actually won many of the Critics awards for Rachel Rachel; Vanessa Redgrave was incredible in Isadora; and Patricia Neal was heartbreaking in The Subject Was Roses.  I remember watching the Oscars that night and really not knowing who was going to win, as there were 4 serious contenders.

Re Dolly, I have always felt that Streisand was the best thing about the movie.  Yes, she was too young in actuality, but I never felt that she was that young as Dolly.  With the elaborate hair-dos and costumes, I could have believed that she was in her late 30s; Carol Channing was only 42 when she did Dolly.  

Her age may have become an issue with the casting of Matthau, who always looked about 75.  I actually enjoyed his performance as well and did not feel that their rumored hatred came through in the movie.  As to the movie itself, I saw it about 6 months ago and was surprised to find that I enjoyed it, even though I did not think that it was very good.  

Re other possibilities for Dolly, Ginger Rogers was too old and had a terrible singing voice (I saw her on Broadway); Doris Day never seemed right for the role to me; I think Lansbury would have been a great choice, but she was not a star.  Ironically, Topol starred in Fiddler shortly after Dolly...the producers of that movie seemed to trust the material, since he was clearly less well known in this country than Lansbury.  

Would I have rather seen Lansbury in the role?  Absolutely.  Was I satisfied with Streisand? Absolutely.

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 11:08am

While not the best choice I think Lucille Ball would have been better for Dolly than she was for Mame. She was age appropriate and a skilled clown.

Barbara would have made a terrific Irene and still could have sang "Love Is Only Love."

For all the comedy "Dolly" is also a show about recovering from grief. Both Dolly and Irene are widows who are entering new marriages for economic reasons. Their New York spree reminds them that they don't have to resign themselves to the roles society has left them with. Barbara simply couldn't muster the gravitas for a key moment like "Before The Parade Passes By" and give "Dolly" the heart it needs to provide the comedy with stakes.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 11:20am

MrsSallyAdams said: "While not the bestchoice I thinkLucille Ball would have beenbetterfor Dolly than she was for Mame. She was age appropriate and a skilled clown.

Barbara would have made a terrific Irene and still could have sang "Love Is Only Love."

For all the comedy "Dolly" is also a show about recovering from grief. Both Dolly and Irene are widows who are entering new marriages for economic reasons. Their New York spree reminds them that they don't have to resign themselves to the roles society has left them with. Barbara simply couldn't muster the gravitas for a key momentlike "Before The Parade Passes By" and give "Dolly" the heart it needs to provide the comedy with stakes."

A please note:  When That Streisand Woman sings "Before the Parade Passes By," the parade does--in fact-- pass her by in the film.

[geoffreyC]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 11:34am

HD might have been a great comeback vehicle for Jane Russell, who still looked great at that time.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 3:23pm

Pearl Bailey. 

Bailey might have done the impossible - rescue the movie from obsolescence into ahead of its time. But that's exactly why it never would have happened.   

Dolores Gray might have been superb, but that also wouldn't have happened.
Angela Lansbury and, especially, Debbie Reynolds are more likely possibilities.  And either might been good.
But casting either would have made a movie which didn't work largely because it was so preposterously old-hat at the time even more old-fashioned and anachronistic.  

While I didn't like Streisand's Dolly, she was in many ways the best available option (which raises the question - was it a good thing to make this movie at the time at all?).  Streisand certainly gives the movie much needed life (perhaps too much) and makes it at least feel in one respect as if it's a 1969 movie instead of a movie of at least a decade earlier.  

I try to imagine Maclaine in the movie but I can't.  Nor do I think she'd have given the film even a glimmer of modernity as Streisand did.  But Maclaine might have been very interesting as Mame in the movie.  


 

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 6:08pm

That Streisand Woman brought a lot of humor to the role- though not the pathos. Hello, Dolly, to me, is not about real people- it s caricatures of people. That is why Barbra did her Mae West impersonations- and the characters of Barnaby, etc. are not at all like real people- to me anyway, the movie lacks depth because the script and characters lack depth. This is no Cabaret or Les Miserable- this is musical comedy for the 1960's- which is fine. Barbra was young and her career was shooting for the stars- she created excitement- and could be sold to an international audience- the 1960's youth quake was occurring and some old fogey production would not sell tickets to that audience. Barbra- and her fashion sense- her offbeat looks- her huge talent- was bankable.

Updated On: 6/11/18 at 06:08 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 6:36pm

Would Julie Andrews have worked? I mean I know she couldn’t get rid of that accent, but I don’t think many people would care as she played Millie from Kansas with that familiar Julie Andrews accent.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 6:43pm

Was Julie too serious for that role- I loved her in Sound of Music- MFL recording from BWAY- but I do not know if she could pull off the humor. 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 6:57pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Was Julie too serious for that role- I loved her in Sound of Music- MFL recording from BWAY- but I do not know if she could pull off the humor."

I thought she was quite funny in Thoroughly Modern Millie and Victor/Victoria. But she did play the “straight” man surrounded by zanny characters who would then find herself reacting to zanny situations.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 7:31pm

Mitzi Gaynor

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 8:19pm

Based on who the top box office draws were at the time, the only other two people I think the studio might have seriously considered were Doris Day and Elizabeth Taylor. Doris Day might have been good. I quite like Streisand in the film, though and think she was likely the right oversized personality for the time. She doesn’t seem too young in the film to me to be honest.

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 6/11/18 at 11:00pm

Julie Andrews was way too busy trying to put Paramount Pictures out of business with "Darling Lili", 20th Century-Fox with "Star".  My favorite part of Streisand's performance is the dinner scene where she tells him to "go his way and she'll go her way", motioning in the same direction for the both of them...

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 10:25am

I think it all depends on whether you saw the show or the movie first
By the time the film was released, I'd seen the stage shoevabout 15 times with a variety of DOLLY's and found That Striesand Woman to be abysmal in the role. The whole film lacks verve.

Another film choice would have been Vera Ellen.

How's this: Martha Raye and Jimmy Durante??

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 11:39am

I truly think the film would have worked if the casting was better. That Streisand Woman can sing and she is hilarious.

Matthau was HORRIBLE as Horace. Tony Randall would have been a hoot.

Marianne McAndrew was DEADWOOD as Irene. She couldn't sing or act. A different actress could have easily brought much more life to the part.

 

[carnzee]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 12:19pm

The obvious choice to me is Debbie Reynolds. She had the larger than life charm and was ten years older than Streisand, who I think is the only good thing about the film.

Yvette Mimieux as Dolly? Oy vey, what were they thinking.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 12:22pm

Martha Raye? Jimmy Durante? Vera Nobody Ellen- are you kidding? These relics would have been laughed off the screen in the late 60's. You needed youth and energy- style and glamour- to pull off an expensive movie musical during the late 60's. Even with Barbra- Hello, Dolly had a rough start. 

Perhaps the Carol Broadway version should have been taped- and shown as a miniseries or whatever on CBS or ABC. But, this huge Broadway hit was ripe for a big screen adaptation- and Streisand- though an odd choice- was the best option at the time. I never liked the caricature cardboard characters of Hello, Dolly- all played for laughs and superficial as can be. Not my type of musical theater at all. I did see Carol in a revival on BWay- which was ridiculous- Carol could hardly sing and the audience went wild anyway- and the movie had some good musical performances by Barbra- all in all- superficial musical theater- for those who just want to see some entertainment- some singing and dancing and a few laughs, Not my cup of tea- or Barbra's from what I have read.

[codywlong2]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 1:18pm

If Judy Garland had lived...can you imagine? She does a little "Hello, Dolly" on her Judy and Liza at the Palladium album. Really a shame she never played it!  

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/12/18 at 1:46pm

Judy could have been great. She would have brought great vulnerability to the role- and lots of heart- as she always did to every role she played- and she of course had the chops to kill that score. One of the great tragedies of entertainment that Judy just did not have what it took to fight- and overcome- her demons. And of course, for her family, I am sure it was devastating.

Updated On: 6/12/18 at 01:46 PM

[CallMeAl2]

Posted: 6/13/18 at 1:42am

BWAY Baby2 said: "Judy could have been great. She would have brought great vulnerability to the role- and lots of heart- as she always did to every role she played- and she of course had the chops to kill that score. One of the great tragedies of entertainment that Judy just did not have what it took to fight- and overcome- her demons. And of course, for her family, I am sure it was devastating."

Judy and Angela Lansbury were about the same age. If she had been healthy, she could have survived to have a crack at the parts Angela played like Madam Rose and Mrs. Lovett. And, of course, Jerry Herman originally wrote Mame for Garland. 

 

[bk]

Posted: 6/13/18 at 1:54am

Just to state the obvious - the book Roadshow is a joke - it's so riddled with misinformation and just plain wrong information I finally threw it across the room.

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/17/18 at 2:24pm

BK, exactly.  There is so much misinformation in that book.  I hope that ChgoTheatreGuy realizes that.