WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST FILM "DOLLY"?

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 2:59pm

After reading the book "Roadshow", which includes multiple chapters about the making of "Hello, Dolly!", they came to the conclusion that Barbra Streisand was definitely the wrong choice for the part of Dolly.  Before "Funny Girl", Ms. Streisand filmed her first three films: "Funny Girl", "Hello, Dolly!" and "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever", receiving $1 million a picture.  She was able to do this on the basis of her stage performance that she didn't even win a Tony for.  So the question I pose is who would have been the perfect person to play Dolly Levi in the film?  Carol Channing was ruled out because she was too "larger than life" for the big screen.  Opinions about a better Horace will also be accepted...

[Cat Guy]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 3:23pm

Barbra Streisand was the perfect person to play Dolly Levi in the film.

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 3:25pm

Looking at the top 10 box office stars of the time...the two women that made the top 10 around then were Barbra Streisand and Katharine Hepburn. 

Watching HELLO, DOLLY! today, I think Streisand works. 

For a production as expensive as DOLLY, there was no way 20th Century Fox was going to take a chance on anyone but a bonafide box office star.

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 03:25 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 3:41pm

No one- and I mean no one- could have done better with that score- her voice was glorious. True- she was too young for the role- but she gave it her all and made it work. The film is basically a piece of fluff- just like the Broadway show- with caricatures not finely drawn characterizations- like Cabaret, West Side Story of My Fair Lady- so this movie needed a personality to fill the screen- and Barbra the ICON fit the bill perfectly.

[enjoyable2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 3:50pm

Babs was a total disaster in that role.  Her best days were the first ten years of her singing career, starting at around age 19-20.  

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 3:52pm

Ginger Rogers? She still had charm to spare when she played Dolly onstage and she could have done some dancing. 

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:00pm

Doris Day, Shirley MacLaine and Elizabeth Taylor were originally considered to play Dolly.  Thank goodness they waited until "A Little Night Music" to introduce the dulcet tones of Ms. Taylor's singing voice...

[Impossible2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:02pm

No one, it's tripe x

[Demitri2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:04pm

OP - "Before "Funny Girl", Ms. Streisand filmed her first three films: "Funny Girl", "Hello, Dolly!" and "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever", receiving $1 million a picture."

I'm not following your logic here at all. What exactly are you saying?  "Funny Girl" was released in 1968 and "On A Clear Day..." in 1970. So, according to you Streisand filmed "On A Clear Day..." around the same time as "Funny Girl" and the studio held its release for two years? Or did you mean "Funny Lady"?

OP - "Opinions about a better Horace will also be accepted.."

Accepted for what? Is there a prize involved?

Btw, I thought Streisand was by far the best choice for Dolly at the time. Not only was she a bankable name but she was able to pull off the character's age difference, sang it beautifully and looked wonderful in all her costumes. And had Channing done the role on film we likely never would've heard "Love Is Only Love" though it would've been fun to hear her croak it. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:04pm

For a production as expensive as DOLLY, there was no way 20th Century Fox was going to take a chance on anyone but a bonafide box office star.

Huh?  Bonafide box office star?!   You are aware that Streisand was already signed to the film versions of HELLO, DOLLY! and ON A CLEAR DAY before she even started filming her first film FUNNY GIRL.  No one knew what kind of box office star she would be so she was cast on spec basically.  

Urban legend in Hollywood has it that the studios bought her Academy Award for FUNNY GIRL in order to raise her film profile and help the box office of her 2 follow up musical films post FUNNY GIRL.  Also, filming of HELLO, DOLLY! was also finished when FUNNY GIRL was released theatrically so no one had any idea if FUNNY GIRL would even bomb at the box office.   Lucky enough, it didn’t.  

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:09pm

The story behind her Oscar win does not involve the studio buying her Oscar.  Ms. Streisand spoke with the president of the Academy, Charlton Heston, explaining to him that she would never be returning to Broadway and that she was only interested in making films.  He questioned her devotion to the business and she assured him that she would never go back to Broadway, became a member of the Academy and voted for herself, hence the tie vote...

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:32pm

The story behind her Oscar win does not involve the studio buying her Oscar. Ms. Streisand spoke with the president of the Academy, Charlton Heston, explaining to him that she would never be returning to Broadway and that she was only interested in making films. He questioned her devotion to the business and she assured him that she would never go back to Broadway, became a member of the Academy and voted for herself, hence the tie vote...

Well, Ray Stark said it to me differently and this urban legend is one I’ve heard for years so he kinda reaffirmed it.  

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 4:37pm

ChgoTheatreGuy's story is a story I heard as well. Which makes it even juicier that she won in a tie vote. Nobody doubts that Streisand voted for herself.

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 5:02pm

What does Barbra not wanting to do a Broadway show again - have to do with the price of tomatoes?  That makes no sense at all.  She wanted to concentrate of film, and that's what she did. 

20th Century Fox wanted a huge star, and that's who they got.  She was already a huge recording star, tv star, and stage star. 

The book "Roadshow" is informative, but as I'm sure you read, it's extremely gossipy and one-sided and doesn't present all the facts.  It's clear from the author which are his favorite films, and which ones aren't.  He's hardly being objective. 

I'm sure Barbra did vote for herself.   Why not?  Is she the only person in the thousands of members over the many, many decades in the Academy who has done that?  No. 

 

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 05:02 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 5:12pm

I think most people thought it was a bit juicy because almost nobody gets invited to be a voting member of the Academy for their first feature length film (or before it was released) and then be invited with enough time so they can vote for themselves for their first Oscar nomination for their first ever feature film. The whole idea of her pleading to be a member and ensuring that she had every intention of sticking with film and staying in Hollywood was to convince Heston or whomever that a membership would not be wasted on her and that she really will be concentrating on her film career since it's the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. And if she won without a tie, nobody would really think anything of it, but since she did tie with Katherine Hepburn, it became pretty clear that she most likely would not have won the Oscar if she wasn't able to vote for herself. Most people who get invited to the Academy for their first nomination don't get to vote until the following year so aren't able to vote in the year and category for which they were nominated and thus receive the invite.

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 05:12 PM

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 5:24pm

Whoever the decision makers are at The Academy that bring up new people for membership must have considered that she was going to be a working actor, since she had 3 films already lined up, without ever stepping onto a sound stage before.

She could have been invited joined at that time, or a few years before as her star was rising?  Who knows?  It's always so easy to speculate on things we know nothing about.  There are so many Hollywood Urban Legends out there. 

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 05:24 PM

[Robbie2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 5:47pm

MichelleCraig said: "Looking at the top 10box office stars of the time...the two women that made the top 10 around then were Barbra Streisand and Katharine Hepburn.

Watching HELLO, DOLLY! today, I think Streisand works.

For a production as expensive as DOLLY, there was no way 20th Century Fox was going to take a chance on anyone but a bonafide box office star."

 

Barbra was the "IT" girl at the time even though too young for the part and a box office $tar! She was perfect...enough said!

[CallMeAl2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 6:30pm

While I agree that she was miscast for the role and mis-directed, the producers job is to cast the best person for project as a whole. Due to the budget of the picture, it had to be a star people would line up to see. I can't think of a better choice in late 1967 than Streisand. She did what she was paid to do - she sang beautifully and forced life and energy into an otherwise flatfooted production. After the success of Funny Girl there was great interest at the time in seeing if she could play any other character.

Producer Ernest Lehman also got lucky. He had no way of knowing that the entire film business was about to turn on its head with Bonnie & Clyde and Easy Rider and all the old stars would be toast. Streisand was new and young enough to not get thrown out with the garbage, as Doris Day, MacLaine, and Elizabeth Taylor were. She was still good box office in 1969-1970.

But the question you have to answer is who would have been a better choice? Angela Lansbury could have done the job, but she wasn't the huge deal Barbra was at the time it was cast. She wouldn't have sold tickets like Streisand. (I would have loved to see her in the part, though.)

The sad thing is, there was a huge star that would have been perfect for the role - and she was even working (briefly) for 20th Century Fox in 1967: Judy Garland. Unfortunately, Garland was on a downward spiral from which she would not be able to recover, passing away after Dolly was finished, but before it was released. But in an alternate universe, wouldn't have been great to see Garland coming down that staircase in the beaded dress singing about being happy to be back where she belongs? 

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 6:40pm

The major things that made "Dolly"'s budget go up was mainly the uncooperative weather.  It rained quite a bit during filming, according to the book.  At one time they couldn't shoot for close to a week that add a couple million dollars to the budget.  This question was raised to get opinions from people.  I think that personally Judy Garland would have sung the hell out of the score and would have been the perfect match for Matthau, unfortunately her addictions got the best of her, and we all know what happened after that...

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 6:44pm

It's a shame about Garland. I don't think she would have been healthy or coherent enough to do the film.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 6:45pm

After the success of Funny Girl there was great interest at the time in seeing if she could play any other character.

HELLO, DOLLY! had already finished filming by the time FUNNY GIRL was released.  Streisand was already cast in both HELLO, DOLLY! and ON A CLEAR DAY before she started filming FUNNY GIRL.  She was already mid-filming ON A CLEAR DAY when she won her Oscar for FUNNY GIRL.  
 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 6:49pm

I'm going to admit it, I first saw the movie Hello Dolly! when I caught it on PBS during a weekend when I was a young teenager and I didn't have a good concept of Streisand's actual age or knowledge of when the movie was made. I didn't know she was too young or miscast or whatever. I thought she was great and absolutely hilarious in the part (especially in Irene's shop). I might get yelled at for this, but Streisand read older than she was but she stayed looking the same for a very long time so I'm not saying she always looked older than she was. To me, she just seemed frozen in the same age and look for a long time. I think she does look young compared to Walter Mathau but at the time I just remember him from Grumpy Old Men and Grumpier Old Men and didn't look much different in Hello Dolly! than he did there. Not to be mean, but it's really a comment of his talent that he had enough box office appeal to have had the film career that he did because he wasn't very screen-friendly.

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 06:49 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 7:11pm

If Barbra voted for herself- she has good taste- Hepburn was good in LIWinter- for sure- but Streisand's performance in FG was one for the ages- she was stupendous. The acting, the singing, the Wyler production- the costumes- all of it- it was an Oscar winning performance and she deserved it- if she did vote for herself- I would have too. I never really liked Hepburn- too mannered for me- and Barbra in her first film killed it. 

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 07:11 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 7:20pm

I'm not the biggest Katherine Hepburn fan, but she was exquisite in The Lion in Winter and I think that's the one out of her four Oscar-winning performances that people think actually reflected her best work. A lot of people can parse through Hepburn's filmography to come up with a few other performances that were superior to her Oscar winning performances in Morning Glory, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?, and On Golden Pond.

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/10/18 at 7:25pm

Originally filming on location in Garrison, NY was scheduled for about 4-5 weeks.  Once production started on the film, producers realized that June is a rainy month in that part of The Hudson Valley.  Director Gene Kelly was able to change the filming schedule to just under 2 weeks. 

Filming commenced April 15, 1968 and was concluded 90 days later, one day over schedule. Although 65 percent of the movie was shot outdoors, only one full day was lost to the weather—and that in Garrison, New York, when it rained.

They only lost 1 full day to rain – not an entire week.  Gene was able to film everything on location in 11 days.  Again, he gets so many facts in the book wrong.  Not sure why he would rather believe lies than the truth.  Even back then, people believed "fake news." 

The main reason why HD cost so much money was due to the show's Broadway producer, David Merrick.  There was a stipulation in his contract with 20th Century Fox that the film couldn't be released for several years, and after ticket sales had naturally gone down.  That never happened with HD as David cast big stars after Carol left, and the box office was going strong.  Filming ended in Sept 1968, and the film sat on a shelf and wasn't released until Dec 1969.  20th Century Fox had to pay even many more millions to David to get the film released. 

Updated On: 6/10/18 at 07:25 PM