WSS Orchestra Diet -Reduce By 5

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:09am

I assume the prices will be reduced according he said sarcastically

To quote Monty Python - Nudge Nudge

[wdwfreak]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:13am

This is a way for the producers to try to save a dying show. I have a feeling it won't last past summer. The grosses aren't helping.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:13am

Here's an Op-Ed piece written by someone currently in the pit of West Side Story.
Gee Officer Krupke.....

[ACL2006]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:26am

It'll be interesting to see how the show does starting in Sept. I don't think they'll post a Labor Day closing notice. To be playing at 50% during the week at The Palace is scary. It won't make it past the end of the year, though. I know she was supposed to do Chicago before she got injured, but I think Mya could play Anita well.

[suttonfoster]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:27am

when i was there a couple of weeks ago, i was surprised to see how empty it was. so glad i got to see it before it will most likely close soon.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:40am

The shelf life for shows is getting shorter & shorter these days

Hair got great reviews but really did not set the world on fire like it should have . WSS should have done better also

Updated On: 7/11/10 at 11:40 AM

[Proper Villain]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 11:58am

It's sad how the producers and professional unions will eventually kill the art form.

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 12:07pm

It's very sad. Also it's sad that some shows like A Little Night Music have such a small orchestration. The union shouldn't allow these things to happen.

The future of Broadway might be a bunch of super low budget shows and one-person shows that employ no actors too.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 12:14pm

I agree with Mr. Woodeil, just close it if you can't keep it open with dignity, the score deserves better.
Does anyone know if this condition was arranged with the musician's union from the start?

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 12:39pm

Does anyone know when this goes into effect? I haven't seen it yet and if I have a week to, I probably should.

[theatreguy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 12:42pm

Smore2 explains this on ATC better than I can so, I'm just copying and pasting what they wrote:

Every Broadway theatre has a minimum number of musicians that must be hired for each production (this number is determined by the union). The minimum at the Palace is 18 musicians, and the Producers have the right to reduce to that number at any time after the first 10 weeks of performances, with two weeks notice.

Musicians above the minimum number must be designated by producer at time of hiring. There are 30 musicians in the West Side Story pit. 18 positions would be designated as run of show, and those slots cannot be eliminated. The remaining 12 musicians are informed when they are hired that they could be cut - they are above the minimum.

[singtopher]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 12:52pm

^Fascinating

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 1:33pm

I wonder what the Kerr is, 3?

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 1:54pm

I'm not sure if shows' runs are shorter now or if our expectations are much higher that everything will run 5-10 years.

I don't agree with that. And I don't agree with stripping down a show and passing it off at top dollar, just to keep it alive for a few more months with half-empty houses.

I also think that audiences' behavior continues to change, largely due to the massive wide release of films these days. When I was growing up, movies didn't play on 3,000+ screens at once across the country. They didn't take in 90 percent of their total gross in the first two weeks. I remember people queueing up for two hours (!) in advance for every screening of the first month that "Jaws" opened. "Star Wars," too. Lines around the block ... for weeks and sometimes months for the big blockbusters. Not any more. Not because so many less are attending movies (although that's true, but not quite THAT much). It's because they don't have to wait anymore. It's playing in seven theatres, every 20 minutes, just miles from where they live.

That's changed the way audiences go to theatres (both live and cinematic). When a show or movie is a hit, everyone wants to go see it right away. After a few weeks or months, they are conditioned now to move on very quickly to something else. Gone are the days when "The Sound of Music" played for TWO YEARS in movie theatres. Yep, two years where I lived. I remember "Jaws" playing for roughly six months solid when I was a kid. It opened in the early summer, and played into early fall.

I think to some degree this has happened to live theatre. A hit show is a "hot ticket" for the first few months. It may or may not continue to sell out like "Wicked," but the must-see buzz dies down quickly now. The attention shifts much faster than before to something else.

Back to the orchestra thing ... I find it so sad when the material isn't honored. WSS is a legendary show largely due to its music (as well as its choreography).

If audiences have moved on to something else, then close it. Don't strip it down and defame it. I would hate to be an audience member paying top dollar to see this for the first time on Broadway and to walk away with a memory of a cut-rate production.

[phantomcrazy14]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 1:55pm

I sure hope it lasts a little longer! I'm seeing with school on September 9th I think. I hate it when shows close.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 1:59pm

I can't say for sure about Night Music, but what has happened in the past with some shows that don't use the minimum is that the producers end up having to pay enough musicians to meet that minimum, whether those people are playing or not.

[theatreguy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 2:16pm

That used to happen a lot (paying musicians who didn't play, they just showed up for their pay check each week) but since the strike in 2003 producers are now allowed to petition the union to let them use fewer musicians than the minimum if that is what their show requires. The Pirate Queen is a recent example of that - they had an orchestra of 11 instead of the required 18 but successfully petitioned to not have to pay an extra 7 musicians.

The Broadway League discourages producers from making these requests though unless they're pretty sure they will be approved. Billy Elliot for example wanted to use the London orchestrations (6 or 7 musicians, I believe) but since the show was widely anticipated to be a big hit, they bit the bullet and had the orchestrations expanded to meet the Imperial Theatre's minimum of 18.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 2:29pm

You're absolutely right, I forgot that the producers won that battle in that strike.

The other fight the producers used to have in that situation was whether or not they could force those non-playing musicians to be at the theatre during the performance. The musicians clearly wanted to just pick up their weekly check and peace out, many to go pick up other gigs. Obviously the producers weren't happy about that and wanted to require those musicians to be there "earning" their pay.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 3:15pm

Mr. Woodeil can certainly resign if he finds the smaller WSS orchestra too undignified for a musician of his stature. I imagine another competent violinist could be found who would appreciate the work. There might even be some actors, crew and other musicians at West Side who prefer to stay employed for the time being. Cut lists are always arranged in advance, the players take the jobs knowing that the positions will likely be eliminated once the show has run a while.

Cut lists go hand-in-hand with the concept of theater orchestra minimums. If producers are going to be compelled to hire more musicians than they want (such as with Billy Elliot) then it makes sense that they also have the option to reduce orchestra sizes when they hire over the minimum. If there weren't cut lists many producers would only hire the bare minimum number of musicians, and those of us who see shows before they've petered out wouldn't get to hear the full orchestrations.

Updated On: 7/11/10 at 03:15 PM

[theatreguy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 3:23pm

For those interested, here are the minimums for each theatre:

Broadway, Minskoff, St. James, Marquis, Hilton, New Amsterdam: 19
Majestic, Palace, Lunt-Fontanne, Imperial, Shubert, Gershwin, Winter Garden: 18
Neil Simon, Al Hirschfeld, Richard Rodgers: 14
August Wilson, Broadhurst: 12
Barrymore, Music Box, Schoenfeld: 9
Brooks Atkinson, Eugene O'Neill, Jacobs: 8
Longacre, Nederlander: 4
Ambassador, Belasco, Booth, Circle in the Square, Cort, Golden, Walter Kerr, Lyceum: 3

This can all be found at AFM Local 802's website: http://www.local802afm.org/frames/fs_wage.htm
Updated On: 7/11/10 at 03:23 PM

[wdwfreak]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 3:38pm

I'm actually shocked that the Al Hirschfeld is 14 with no pit.

[theatreguy]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 3:58pm

The Al Hirschfeld has an orchestra pit . . .

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:40pm

The show has had a very successful run. Its time has come to close. Making cuts to the orchestra to allow the show to stay around a little bit longer is not worth it.

[philly03]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:46pm

Doesn't the Hirsch have a relatively large pit at that? Tale had 23 members...
The Simon can also hold more than 14 as the Ragtime revival also had 23 orchestra members, from what I remember!

They should just close it... as others said if only for the dignity of the score! Updated On: 7/11/10 at 05:46 PM

[phantom39]

Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:56pm

I think you all forget this is after all, a business.
While most producers strive to showcase the best production possible, their ultimate goal is to make money. So, if they think they can keep making money off this revival- they'll make the cut, keep this HUGE staff employed (minus those 5 poor musicians) and later on, when the show finally closes, they'll keep producing new work for Broadway. That's (usually) how it works.