What did you think of Sunset Boulevard (1994)? — Page 4

I don't mean to make this the "Let's trash ALW thread", but, honestly, the way he sets lyrics, newintown, I doubt many in the audience can actually understand them.

I don't think Lloyd Webber wrote the lyrics.

I don't think Lloyd Webber wrote the lyrics.

Of course he didn't. But he is the "muscle" on his shows (at least since the collaboration with Rice ended), so let's don't pretend there's a word spoken or sung that ALW hasn't approved.

But if you need additional evidence, notice that we are talking about lyric patterns that are virtually identical through several collaborators. Who's the common denominator here?

:) She's got good phrasing [Webb], and enough mix of musical theatre chops and pop understanding to sing that role and other ALW work with fluidity.

People probably know this anecdote but:
A much disliked lyric (mentioned above in the thread) re. 'platinum blonde bitch / Own so many apartments I've forgotten which is which' was an indulgence on the part of Don Black. He overheard ALW getting confused while on the phone to one of his homes, and the location of something or other within the place. So someone having the luxury of apartments and yet never being able to find the light switch got carried into a lyric. Perhaps not worth the in-joke, as Norma is surely down to her last mansion by the time of the action, and doesn't seem to have been outside for years. Then again, she's showing off, and is ever the self-deceiver.

Re. Amy Powers' input mentioned above; a version of 'With One Look' called 'Just One Look' is on video sharing sites. It's from the first Sydmonton workshop. While no lines survive into the current version of that song (and had gone by Sydmonton workshop 2 - as had Powers), perhaps her vestigial work is in song placement and dramatic conceit for those numbers. Not an insubstantial contribution, even if few of her words remain. [I'm not sure how few/many do on other songs]

The thing with ALW is he takes over every aspect of his musical--at least that's my impression. He often chooses to work with student lyrists--I think on purpose (though that doesn't excuse Hampton--or Black). I disagree with Gaveston in that I think he *can* set a lyric--the way he set Cats is often amazing I think.

Newintown reminds me of me when I bemoan the public's utter ignorance of anything orchestration. Not to mention, the lack of interest, which is stunning to me, you know, being a lover of MUSICALS and all, hehe.

I bring that up because I always hope to awaken someone's senses toward the much neglected art of "dressing up a melody," giving it character, giving a song musical subtext, and so on...so Newintown's assertion has had me thinking lyrics every time I play music lately.

Not that I feel I should because I see myself as one of those "masses" that don't give a hooey. I do listen to and very much care about quality lyric writing but i admit my overall knowledge of that art isn't as thorough as I'd like. I can certainly recognize a great lyric and can easily spot mediocre ones. The problem is it doesn't always translate to my conscious like it would someone who has vast knowledge on the discipline/process. Instead, it nudges at my subconscious enough that someone's dislike of it wouldn't surprise me, but at the same time, would come to the realization I hadn't thought of it before, even if it always bugged me. Yep, musical theatre is serious business to moi.

Eeek. Went all Dr. Joyce Brothers on y'all. Hate it when dat happens. :S

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I've said it once, and I'll say it again- I agree that there are many lyrics in Webber shows that are not great lyrics. That being said- when Sondheim stretches to make a lyric rhyme its brilliant- and when a Webber lyricist does it "it's crap".

I happen to find the lyrics to Sunset Blvd. to be just fine- not earth shattering, but they serve the purpose just fine.

I actually find many of the lyrics in Sunset to be quite moving- in fact so many of them are practically lifted right off the silver screen. So maybe my use of the word "fine" was too soft.

Of all of his shows, this was one where I truly don't think lyrics were the big problem.

I've always felt that this show's biggest problems were that it simply could not live up to its own hype and it is a show that depends VERY much on who gets cast as Norma. One of the only shows that I can think of that hinges that much on the leading lady's casting is Gypsy. If you get stuck with a Norma who can't pull the part off and truly emit "Star Quality" (to steal from Evita) than the show simply doesn't work.

To answer the complaint that Sondheim is forgiven for sins condemned in others, the difference with Sondheim is that he makes complex lyrics a part of the fabric of an entire musical. He doesn't just throw in a trick rhyme here or there because he happens to think of one. (And post-INTO THE WOODS, he has increasingly eschewed complex rhyming altogether.)

(I will allow that "is personable/coercin' a bull" is an unfortunate exception to the above.)

That's quite different from suddenly deciding a rhyme must be found for "devil take the hindmost" and only coming close.

Golden source material: Billy Wilder's SUNSET BOULEVARD is often listed among the greatest films of all time.

^^^^finebydesign, you are absolutely right that source material may be great in its own right and yet prove to be poor raw product for musical adaptation. Billy Wilder himself talked Sondheim out of adapting SUNSET BOULEVARD. (If only Wilder had worked the same magic on Jule Styne and Bob Merrill before SUGAR!)

But I took the OP's remark to merely refer to the quality of the source material per se, not necessarily whether it was an inherently good source for musical adaptation.

Personally, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been adapted; I just don't think much imagination was brought to the process. Merely converting a screenplay into rhymed couplets and extending a few scenes is not to re-conceive the material as Prince & Co. did with NIGHT MUSIC.

But Billy Wilder was almost certainly right that the underlying story tends toward the operatic, which may be why Glenn Close chose to play the role with her tongue so firmly in her cheek.

Well to me it's just not a "big" enough arc for a musical and certainly not enough to even plot. Opera makes sense and obviously a straight play. As far as I recall nothing really happens, there are certainly moments that make nice song moments but rare is a moment where someone needs to sing to move the "story" along.

Again, you can make a musical out of anything. I guess this may have been improved ala Grey Gardens with some backstory scenes... but it's such boring premise for a musical.