What's with all of the teens obsessed Wicked and RENT!? — Page 3

The fate of the goat professor. The death of the sister. Galinda's inability to publicly acknowledge her friend's inate character and integrity. Need I go on? This *isnt* a "nice" show, when you really look at the material. It's vicious and vindictive and only has moments you could describe as heartwarming. But it has this candy-coated gloss that makes everything go down so much easier, so much so that you dont even notice the truly hateful message it's conveying.

I temporarily forgot that I had posed that question, but I'm kind of baffled by your response. I agree that the candy coating is masking some darker subject matter underneath, but still, demonic? Maguire's novel is extremely dark and a little subversive, but they've all but removed most of that from the musical. The actual events that you take issue with from the musical aren't even things that I would consider especially bad. Yes, the goat professor meets an awful fate, but that treatment of Animals is what Elphaba's trying to stop. You have to get an idea of the tyranny of the Wizard's government somehow. The death of Elphaba's sister? You'd have to take issue with Mr. Baum for that one. Do you think the same thing of The Wizard of Oz?

I mean, I get what you're saying and I agree that it's not a saccharine-sweet story, but what (essentially) fairy tale is? Vindictiveness and revenge are elements of a lot of stories. You speak as though you're worried that people will be corrupted by Wicked or unduly influenced by the show's "message" (which I'm still not sure you've articulated). I suppose we're just going to have to disagree on this one.

>> You speak as though you're worried that people will be corrupted by Wicked or unduly influenced by the show's "message" (which I'm still not sure you've articulated).

I'm far from worried about that. My sole worry is that based on the majority of posts we've seen about this show, no one's actually been inside the theatre and sat down to watch it, because had they, we wouldnt be celebrating it as the "feel-good show of the year". It's dark and subversive and more than a little cruel, and it's far more than just a parable about high school.

>> The death of Elphaba's sister? You'd have to take issue with Mr. Baum for that one. Do you think the same thing of The Wizard of Oz?

Of course not, because Baum didnt write the same characters as Maguire. Elphaba and her sister aren't the innocents wronged that we see in WICKED, just as G(a)linda isnt the two-faced power-monger. As such, there is no issue to take with Baum, thank you. But there is this little thing called "comprehension", which I gather most viewers of WICKED seem to lack. For example, when I mention the goat professor, your response is:

>> that treatment of Animals is what Elphaba's trying to stop

And yet she fails, miserably. As uch as she wants to, she *doesnt* "defy gravity"; instead, she falls hard to the ground and has to hide under it to escape her attackers. By the end of the play, this victim of circumstance has not only brought about the miserable end to the animals that she tried to stop, but she's also become the most hated person in the land -- and where's her good friend, Galinda? Telling everyone how wonderful it is she's dead -- and there's the message you leave the theatre with. I'm sorry, but am I supposed to find that all cute and cuddly and fabulous? Dont know about you, but I have real problems wrapping my head around that one.

And yet all these people say it's just this amazing show. It has a mediocre score and a pretty sad (both literally and metaphorically) book, but what sells it is the stagecraft, even if some of it (like the dragon) makes no sense to someone who comes into the theatre without having read Maguire's novel. It's a triumph of style over substance, just as CATS was. And it will no doubt run just as long and have just as many tours and make just as much money.

But is it good theatre? Sorry if I sound like an elitist snob, but no. It's manufactured and packaged, and it purposely ignores the very ethical questions it itself raises. And so does the audience... again, if the glowing posts on these boards are any indication.

---

>> a big fun camp show

Well, there you have it, folks. I rest my case.

---

SeanMartin, you're awesome.

---

SeanMartin, I'm trying to figure out exactly what you're trying to say. I, just as you, am confused about how people could find Wicked cute and cuddly and fabulous, but the things you're pointing out as the darker elements of the show actually become a problem in themselves.

"It's dark and subversive and more than a little cruel, and it's far more than just a parable about high school."
See, I don't think it is, and I think that's exactly the problem. It pretends to have discussion about truth, deception, good and evil, appearences, but it never really does go there. It merely flashes the idea out there with some plot elements and sugar coats the rest of it into a high school drama. The danger of the show is that people actually think there's nothing self-abusive about Elphaba's considering Glinda a friend when all that has been developed was an abusive relationship. And nobody walks out realizing how Elphaba is conforming and giving up the fight by living and escaping rather than taking the sacrifice.

It has been sugar-coated and watered down into a high-school drama. Thought, even looking at it through that lens, I'm not sure how people think it's a "feel-good" show.

But really, if only the dark elements WERE there.

yes .
okay, im guilty of being obsessed with both ofthese. and i am a teen . but i do love and obsessed with other shows/musicals. trust me. i know quility of all theother shows. like, many many others. i cant even list them all.


i actually make my dad take me to small shows in theatres downtown where i live, and see liek every broadway show that comes through cincy, i love them all .

Updated On: 1/7/07 at 06:38 PM

Very good, SeanMartin.

I think a LOT of the problem here is the the GRAND majority of the people who are obsessed with Wicked and Rent have only any contact with it through the cast recording.

and I guarantee had they seen the show, and THEN got the cast recording, it would be a different story. But since they get to hear Idina's magnificently synthesized performance on the cast recording, and fall in love with the pop screaming that's become so mainstream in American culture these days, they make up their minds that Wicked is awesome and the fact that if (that's a big if) and when they actually see the show, they come to hear the music and already have their minds made up that it's going to be awesome.

Therefore, spectacle hits, the Gruen transfer kicks in (PM me if you want to know what that is) and everyone leaves in a state of utopia. Not because the show was actually good, but because they had made up their minds beforehand that it was, thanks to the cast recording.

Now, whether or not the music deserves such a massive following is another issue - but I think the cast recording is really what makes Wicked and Rent so popular.

and think about it - now that millions of people have seen Rent (the mediocre show it is, ruined further in an EXTREMELY mediocre movie), we really don't hear all that much about it anymore, because people have actually SEEN the show.

Oh dear this could get ugly.

"and I guarantee had they seen the show, and THEN got the cast recording, it would be a different story. But since they get to hear Idina's magnificently synthesized performance on the cast recording, and fall in love with the pop screaming that's become so mainstream in American culture these days, they make up their minds that Wicked is awesome and the fact that if (that's a big if) and when they actually see the show, they come to hear the music and already have their minds made up that it's going to be awesome. "

I don't necessarily think that's the case. Are you aware of the splash the show made and the impact it had on people PRIOR to any cast recording? I really think it's the story. I think people fall in love with it over the fact that it pretends to have a discussion about some pretty serious subject matter without ever truly getting to the deppest, ugliest parts of it and sugar-coating any darker material to make everything nice and easy to swallow...desirable to swallow. And I think because they pulled Elpahaba back from being SUCH an extremist and mixed her up in some typical high-school drama, a lot fo teenagers are CONVINCED they can relate to someone so oppressed, outspoken, and misunderstood (again, I'm not sure they can...and I think the fact that a lot of fans who supposedly relate accept the ending and Elphaba's relationship with Glinda says a lot).

So just the music? Noooo way.

Updated On: 1/7/07 at 11:38 PM

>> Everyone is different and are allowed to like a show for any reason valid to them.

... as long as the reason makes some kind of sense. But to say "I like chocolate because it tastes like strawberries" sorta indicated a serious lack of familiarity with the true nature of chocolate.

---

>> but I dont see anyone professing their love for Wicked because everything is green and green is their favorite color.

No, but what they *are* saying is "Isnt it a happy show???", which it aint, not by a long stretch.

---

I don't think it's about people needing their spirits lifted up... someone mentioned Hair and Grease earlier in the thread and I think Wicked and Rent share a lot of similar elements with these shows that can easily explain the attraction to younger people. I mean no disrespect to any of these shows, I was a Grease fan myself in my younger days but it's quite simple, really...

A group of friends, a little romance, younger characters that can be easily reduced to stereotypes you can 'identify' with (or your friends), accessible songs, throw in a little struggle with authority and some anti-conformism and you get the perfect vehicle for teenage angst and unrest.

We've all been there... some with movies, some with plays, it's just natural. And it's also only natural that it's used by marketing to aggravate the obsession... a product of our culture.

None of it means that teens/tweens who are into Rent/Wicked will only be into these shows or will be interested in others. I guess it just depends on what they are looking for when they get over that stage in their lives.

---

Updated On: 1/8/07 at 04:33 AM

I read an issue of Every Day With Rachael Ray and in one section for teen cooking, they gave tips to make cooking fun. Here's one non-direct quote.

"Listen to music. Musicals like Hairspray and Wicked have fun, upbeat music."


Ugh.