What's with all the N2N hate?- Page 4

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 2:20pm

Oh the hate is just from here

People on here are predictable and obvious, whenever something does really really well that ends up getting a lot of younger fans as well as older ones they have to beat it down

N2N will become the new Rent or Wicked on here

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 2:55pm

Oh dear God. N2N is a million times better than Wicked and significantly better than Rent, IMO.

[newintown]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 3:08pm

People on here are predictable and obvious, whenever something does really really well that ends up getting a lot of younger fans as well as older ones they have to beat it down

As Grandma always said, "Snippy slurs do not a useful comment make."

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 3:19pm

"As Grandma always said, "Snippy slurs do not a useful comment make." "

Maybe they dont but its true, other theatre boards dont show this much hostility towards shows, the poor fans of these shows are mocked and ridiculed by people on here (and no im not a Wicked fan, not at all)

But it seems like once a show becomes a smash it seems to become something that 'cool kids' (You know, the 15 year olds who sit at home in their bedrooms and listen to cast recordings all day) start bashing it.

Now that was a snippy slur lol

[Spacedog78]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 3:42pm

OH MY! I was just asking a simple question on why people didn't like the show, I never expected it to delve into the perils of drugs and Scientology!!!!

[TulitaPepsi]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 5:14pm

Spacedog, I'm not a fan of N2N, but I think this has been the most intellegent, reasoned and respectful-of-different-opinions thread on the show I've ever seen.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 8:25pm

So because their behavior is uncomfortable for YOU, they need to be medicated??? They need to be/feel numb and removed? Oy. I know it's not easy -- but it's not thier job to make YOUR life easier.

It's not about "uncomfortable" behavior, it's about behavior that makes them a risk to themselves and others.


And the doctor states: "Patient stable." after Diana stating she feels nothing. It may not be pleasant, but it is real.

They don't delve into the explanation- that they need her emotionally stable so they can start to treat the disorder instead of the symptoms- they just end it on a laugh. Having him impatient with her as she turns the hypnosis session into a joke extends the anti-psychiatry themes in the eyes of the audience. You barely see Dr. Madden again until after she's attempted suicide, and the implication is that once she feels dead inside, he kind of gives up on helping her.

Updated On: 4/16/10 at 08:25 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 4/15/10 at 10:37pm

Orangeskittles, you're getting the timeline of events mixed up. The line "patient stable" comes right after the scene with Dr. Fine, not during the hypnosis scene with Dr. Madden. In fact, during that scene the audience is shown how her illness impacts her family.

After that it's I Dreamed A Dance then There's A World and at that moment Gabe convinces her to try to take her own life. How is there anything in that that extends the anti psychiatry themes or lack thereof to the audience.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 1:20am

I'm not getting the timeline mixed up, I forgot that there were supposed to be two doctors since they're played by the same actor, but you're misinterpreting my post. I moved a sentence in my post, since apparently it was confusing to you out of chronological order.

Other than her suicide attempt, the only overtly negative (read: dangerous) symptoms of her disorder (car crashes, public meltdowns, burning down the house) are just hinted at in arguments with Natalie, not shown to give an even portrayal of manic depression. So when Diana jokes her way through every form of therapy portrayed in the show, gaining sympathy from the audience, the doctor(s) is shown as a stoic pill-pusher who seeks to oppress her quirky, free-spirit, not as someone trying everything possible to help a woman hasn't been able to function for 16 years.

Updated On: 4/16/10 at 01:20 AM

[hannah_bway]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 9:58am

Given the turn that this thread took, I thought people might have been interested in Brian Yorkey's comments on the question presented:

"BRIAN YORKEY: I think that's a great question. We were hoping -- and it took us awhile to find this balance -- we were hoping to portray, in as truthful away as we could, the difficulty in treating something like bipolar disorder or depression. We definitely wanted to speak to -- because we knew from people who were close to us -- the plusses and minuses of medication. There are many medications which are very powerful and very successful in treating many of the symptoms of bipolar and of depression. We really live in a miraculous age in that sense. But medications as many do come with side effects and they come with tradeoffs and Diana is not the first character fictional or otherwise to question whether the side effects that come with medication are worth the benefits. We didn't want to take a stand one way or the other. There are people who think we have taken a stand one way or the other. Luckily, I think they are about an equal number of people who think we think one thing as who think we think another thing so hopefully that means we've done a decent job of being balanced."

The full interview: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/art/blog/2010/04/conversation-pulitzer-prize-winners-in-drama-tom-kitt-and-brian-yorkey-of-next-to-normal.html

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 4:21pm

I think the "patient stable" part is a more negative part of the show's portrayal of psychiatrists because she is reporting this awful thing (not feeling any emotions) and he's just like "Patient stable!"

I'm in clinical psych, not psychiatry, but I'd be concerned if a patient reported that to me.

[n2ngal]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 9:39pm

I had a big problem with the ending also, altho I totally enjoyed the score and acting. At the end, Diana decides to stop taking her meds, stop seeing doctors, leave her husband and go home to her parents, I think. Is the writer suggesting that manic/depr patients should renounce therapy and medication?
You absolutely can have no doubt that Diana is very sick. SHE HAS ATTEMPTED SUICIDE AND HAD SERIOUS BREAKDOWNS MANY TIMES.
The show is great in illustrating the progression of the disease and how it affects the whole family, the ups and downs of the disease over many years.
You wonder what Gabe represents? I feel Gabe represents the memory of their son and how the memory haunts them. Dan is haunted too. He was so consumed with taking care of Diana, but when she left he was still left with his loss and so we see Gabe again. He was a care giver for Diana, but he was also deeply affected by the loss of his son. That part I thought was magnificent.
To reiterate: my only problem with the show was that the ending seemed to imply a patient should give up on medicine when it doesn't work to cure them.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 9:51pm

I don't think it implied that at all, just as Sweeney Todd doesn't imply that it's okay to kill people and bake them into pies.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 9:58pm

1. It only implies that THIS patient has given up on meds
2. It is HINTED that she is continuing therapy with Dr. Madden.
3. It also lets us know that Natalie and Diana are working on their relationship.
4. It also lets us know Diana is being cared for (her parents) even though it no longer comes from Dan
5. It also shows some healing for the family.

I don't know think the writers want to INFLUENCE anyone one way or another. They are simply presenting this story and inviting us to think and feel.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 10:10pm

^Very well said.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 10:13pm

Elphaba, "imply" is a bit vague. It's more that the generous portrayal of the protagonist makes the audience sympathize with their negative actions. Do you think Sweeney Todd doesn't suggest that the judge and Beadle's murders were justified?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 10:13pm

Wait....I WASN'T suppose to kill, cook and serve up my neighbors that wronged me? To confession I must go.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 10:33pm

I can certainly understand why Sweeney did what he did, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start killing and baking people.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 10:59pm

1. It only implies that THIS patient has given up on meds
2. It is HINTED that she is continuing therapy with Dr. Madden.
3. It also lets us know that Natalie and Diana are working on their relationship.
4. It also lets us know Diana is being cared for (her parents) even though it no longer comes from Dan
5. It also shows some healing for the family.

I don't know think the writers want to INFLUENCE anyone one way or another. They are simply presenting this story and inviting us to think and feel.

Wonderfully put (as usual), dramamama.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/16/10 at 11:40pm

Awwww.....a maiden blush bepaints my cheek!

[GatorNY]

Posted: 4/17/10 at 6:04pm

Is "Maidon's Blush" available on the same aisle as the "Matron's Liniment?" Sorry...it was such and easy set up...see the thread about whether or not London loves HAIR for explanation. Sorry to go of course...back to N2N (which I'm taking 5 people to tomorrow for my 10th time).
And as I've said before, Mama's always right.

Updated On: 4/17/10 at 06:04 PM